@kianakenney
Congratulations on your new pup! Nala is a cutie! It’d be interested to know her genetic make-up......I don’t have any guesses. Enjoy her - she is precious.
Should I neuter my Basenji?
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@cognition - Carriers if bred to a Carrier can produce Fanconi Afflicted pups. It is recommended that Carriers only be bred to Clear. Same with PRA (causes blindness and like Fanconi is late onset). Many breeders in the US put in their contracts that pups be spayed/neutered at a certain age unless used for breeding. If you have a bitch in season, you might find all kinds of dogs in your neighbor "trying" to visit and they are very good at getting in... When my girls are in season we would have a 12yr old Lab from 3 blocks away that would stalk the house and only when the girls were in season. A person that I worked with had a male and female GSD. When the bitch was in season they locked her in the garage, the male "ate" the door down to get to her.... 8 puppies later.... And in the US it is a fact that there are puppy mills and people that have puppies only to make money. In the end, it is a personal choice... I do breed and for pet puppies I do recommend spay/neuter but not till over 1yr. Again, it is a breeder choice to include this in their contracts. If a person is interested in breeding then I stay on as a co-owner. I know that this is not the common thing in other countries... as I said, it is breeders choice. This one reason that the US has so many shelter dogs...
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Note also in the US, that many non-responsible breeders that breed for money or sell to pet stores (puppymills/BackYard Breeders), do not care if people interested in Basenji really know the breed or why they think a Basenji would be a fit to their family....... so they breed and sell regardless, they will not take back the pups they produce and sell... so many are place on line to be sold... no health testing, no socialization, raised outside in kennels... then people trying to get their money back try to sell on line... because they believe what is on line...
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@jengosmonkey said in Should I neuter my Basenji?:
I'm going to put it off for as long as I can for Logan IF I do it at all. If I can avoid it I will. I will say this... those of us who do have intact doggies really need to make certain we're not contributing to unplanned litters.
So nice to hear about your great experience with your shelter dog. Sounds wonderful.
Where I am the only dogs that run free are the lost ones (contractor leaves gate open, child leaves garage door open, etc), and they are quickly reunited with their owners. And since it takes two to tango, one loose dog is hardly going to result in puppies.
Not as if it would be a bad thing if it did. Again, where I am shelters have no dogs. They are just plain empty. And even going to Mexico or the Bahamas -- which they do -- won't change that.
Cats are an entirely different issue. Bad situation with feral cats.
In thinking about it, I've never heard of an unwanted litter other than from breeders. Can happen with breeders because they have multiple dogs.
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I was incorrect about preventing pregnancy in females. Probably read too many posts about male dogs having vasectomies. Females, rather than have a complete or ovariohysterectomy, they have a procedure that leaves the ovaries intact and just remove the uterus. Interesting articles on the subject. Studies have shown that in both humans and dogs, females that retain their ovaries live longer than those that have had them removed.
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.... Our breeder said we should neuter him and I read the main reason is that they don't contract testicular cancer.
Most breeders, especially the responsible ones, have conditions or requirements in their contracts re: spaying/neutering. Please refer to the link below for more scientific details on cancer and dog spaying/neutering.
... Plus I heard you can't enter your dog into shows if he is neutered?
That is correct for showing, also known as Conformity competition.
I was thinking of taking up a hobby one day like lure coursing or something.... does neutering mess their physicality up?
Once again, I'd suggest you check out the link below. It has scientific research to dispel many neutering myths. Liz McCargo's article uses it as a reference, BTW.
Here is a brief but very thorough booklet discussing the pros and cons of neutering/spaying, more science based than anecdotal.
https://my.puppyculture.co.uk/resources/flipbook/spay-neuter-booklet/
Good luck with your decision. -
@helle-devi - You can't show in AKC conformation with a spayed/neutered dog (in the US) some countries have separate conformation classes for "altered" dogs. In the US UKC shows (different than AKC) has altered classes also.
Spay/neuter will not mess their physicality for coursing... or any other activity. -
@tanza Right, I understand from a breeder's perspective why they don't want their pups they give away to procreate without them... but I don't plan on breeding my pup I just want him to grow as healthy as possible. If neutering could impact this it really bothers me.
@helle-devi Yes our breeder had the same thing in the contract... but I am wondering if that's for her benefit and not the dogs? Seems like most people are saying not to neuter on here which I was very surprised to read.
I am surprised no one who has neutered their dog responded
I thought I'd get a lot of people encouraging it... I'll really read the links provided. Thanks all! -
@cognition - My contract for pet puppies state that spay/neuter is required. What is different is the timing... and 90% of pet people do not want to have an intact dog/bitch.... I neutered my first male at 4yrs because we had bitches intact in the house and we decided that I would not be using him...
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@cognition you didn't send me your email address via messaging privately so I have not been able to forward you Liz McCargo' s piece. It spells out reasons not to neuter, for health and development. I think you would find it most helpful.
People who have recently neutered puppies will not yet know of adverse effects. Which is probably why nobody has responded. Or they may be regretting their actions.
Again, @tanza has the right of it. Timing is everything. Certainly you should never even consider neutering before hormonal and structural development - and not before 3 or 4 years old. By that time you should have realised that having an entire basenji just means vigilance for a few weeks once a year.
Over here we possibly have a different mindset. I always insisted my puppies NOT be neutered, and never sold to any one with that in mind. Late in life to improve quality is one thing. Cutting a dog for the owner's convenience is another.
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@cognition said in Should I neuter my Basenji?:
I am surprised no one who has neutered their dog responded
I made it clear to my pups breeder that I wanted my pup to be spayed. As an "older adult" I recognized that I lacked the knowledge to be a breeder myself, didn't have a desire to learn about breeding, and (generally) wanted a puppy as a companion. As it turns out, the girl they picked for me was a Fanconi Carrier, which means that she could have passed Fanconi on to her own pups, and only made the decision to spay her more responsible. She was 18 months old when she was spayed. I have never regretted my choice.
my baby girll! -
@elbrant - She could have only passed Fanconi to her pups if the Sire was a Carrier or Affected. Carrier to Clear the pups would either be Carrier or Clear and would not get Fanconi.
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@elbrant said in Should I neuter my Basenji?:
was a Fanconi Carrier, which means that she could have passed Fanconi on to her own pups,
Absolute nonsense ! Unless the dog she was bred to was also a carrier. And then you would have had a 50/50 chance of producing an Affected. However, Affected does NOT mean afflicted.
Very far from all the dogs DNA tested 'affected' actually become afflicted.
And with due care there was no need to for her to be bred anyway. You wanted a companion, you got a companion, that you maybe inadvertently shortened the time you have together, we shall never know.
I honestly cannot get my head around the frequent mutilation of healthy dogs just for the convenience of their owners. In Europe the tendency is to keep the dogs entire and be careful.
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@zande - Sad to say, not true in the US.... to many Backyard/puppy farmers out there just to make money...
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@tanza I know. It makes me so sad, though, that so many dogs are altered for what seems to me to be entirely spurious reasons.
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@elbrant But, and I think @tanza will agree with me, Doodle was cut at 18 months, I think you said ? So not as a puppy. She will have had at least one and probably two proper seasons and have reached hormonal maturity. Therefore her chances are much better than if she had been spayed as a totally immature puppy.
I am still rabidly against neutering 'for convenience' but can more or less accept that in USA you have a different mindset. Just leave puppies to mature properly first - PLEASE.
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Thanks again for the responses all!
I will review all the material received and respond back with my thoughts and or further questions.
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@tanza said in Should I neuter my Basenji?:
@cognition - My contract for pet puppies state that spay/neuter is required. What is different is the timing... and 90% of pet people do not want to have an intact dog/bitch.... I neutered my first male at 4yrs because we had bitches intact in the house and we decided that I would not be using him...
I'm on the fence. My main concern, as I experienced with our Basset Hound, Sam, growing up, was wandering as a saftey issue. That Basset climbed over a 5 ft fence somehow every time Frowsi, a few blocks away, went into heat.
I've read pros and cons on the health issues. Truly objective information is extremely difficult to discern. I'm personally skeptical, as with DocC's link to "PUPPY CULTURE SPAY/NEUTER BOOKLET" that the health cons are as overwhelming as claimed. My vet, who I trust, says the data on the difference between 6 months and 1 year is based on research on golden retrievers that they may get more arthritis. He said there's otherwise very little research on the outcomes of the timing difference. What's your position based on?
I'm tending toward neutering because I see it as a safety issue. Sally's position is that preventing that is for the convenience of the owner. I don't see it that way. I worried about Sam's safety, as I worry about Sanji's, of getting out and getting killed by a car. In fact, I got Sanji because my last dog got killed by a car (but not related to this as he was neutered at six months). I couldn't live with myself easily if Sanji wasn't neutered, wandered off, and got killed by a car.
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@sanjibasenji I honestly fail to see HOW neutering will prevent an RTA (road traffic accident) ! Sanji will wander, or not, regardless of whether you cut him. He is a Basenji - the hunting instinct will be there, he will always be curious to find out what is the other side of the fence.
In any case, in 40 years of breeding and running a pack of up to 8 at a time, I have never found my boys even remotely interested in anything that wasn't a Basenji. Let a nubile young lady come a-visiting and BINGO ! whichever of the boys was due to get lucky - paid gigolos all - showed he knew just what was what. But when next door's Labrador or the Spaniels across the road came in season, they came and told me, but it wasn't really a matter of interest to them. They certainly didn't try to go walkabout.
However, if you MUST do it, sweat it out until he is three at the very least. Sanji went to live with you far too early and has a lot of catching up to do. He needs to mature thoroughly, hormonally, physically and mentally, before you start cutting him to bits.
With a little luck, by the time he is three, you will see there is really no need to castrate him at all ! And he will be able to live out his potential as nature intended he should.
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@zande
I appreciate your considered view. It's useful to know that your's never wandered for another breed. That adds a major point to the "no need to neuter" column. So far, perhaps due to his late development and our extensive training, Sanji shows no interest in wandering beyond where he can see us. He sticks by us, and always comes when I call or whistle for him. Lot's of off-leash recall training is paying off in that regard. So, perhaps it could be the case that we'll discover it unnecessary after a year or so. I plan to wait that long at least. We'll see.(But wandering could lead to an RTA; we were lucky that our basset didn't get hit by a car during his escapes to get to Frowsi.).
