Want one
Blue tri basenji
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We frequently have summer droughts and water restrictions here, too. Replanting grass in my yard won't be a simple process. The ground here is hard, red clay which is extremely difficult for grass seed to take root in. Clay also has poor drainage and any seed that does take root will be drowned or washed away in rain or when watered. I would have to till up the yard and add humus or light mulch to the soil before planting or sodding. That still doesn't solve the problem of trying to get grass to grow in the shade that covers half my yard. And considering that the dogs will just kill it again, I can't justify the time, energy, and expense just to make my yard "pretty" for a few weeks.
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It looks very much like a commercial breeders set up to me. Certainly not how i would keep my dogs, but IMO, much better than individual kennelled areas and small run (as kennels usually are over here). The dogs have plenty of room to move around, the poo is obviously cleaned up, they have shelter and from their condition they look well fed.
Its not a pretty, immaculate breeding establishment, but i dont see anything cruel or unclean to be of concern in the pics.
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We frequently have summer droughts and water restrictions here, too. Replanting grass in my yard won't be a simple process. The ground here is hard, red clay which is extremely difficult for grass seed to take root in. Clay also has poor drainage and any seed that does take root will be drowned or washed away in rain or when watered. I would have to till up the yard and add humus or light mulch to the soil before planting or sodding. That still doesn't solve the problem of trying to get grass to grow in the shade that covers half my yard. And considering that the dogs will just kill it again, I can't justify the time, energy, and expense just to make my yard "pretty" for a few weeks. I would rather put my money into health testing my dogs….but maybe that's just me. shrugs
I agree with you too. id save my money and use it for something worth using. I hear NC is alot of clay land
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It looks very much like a commercial breeders set up to me. Certainly not how i would keep my dogs, but IMO, much better than individual kennelled areas and small run (as kennels usually are over here). The dogs have plenty of room to move around, the poo is obviously cleaned up, they have shelter and from their condition they look well fed.
Its not a pretty, immaculate breeding establishment, but i dont see anything cruel or unclean to be of concern in the pics.
I agree with you completely.
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Back to Nocturnal kennels….the yards do need to be poop scooped but they are free of debris. The fencing is secure and they are large enough for the dogs to run around and play. The dogs themselves are in good weight and visually appear to be healthy. The Welsh Terriers have been groomed. I do not agree with the breeding practices of this place but the conditions of the kennels are far better than some breeders (assorted breeds) and rescue places I have been too.
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My Basenjis have a very large area (which I laughingly call my garden) to run in. At times even though there is considerable space, there are parts that are grassless owing to the amount of running and playing my dogs enjoy. I also don't have chain limk fencing as I would have Basenjis out and about on the hunt having easily climbed it!! I have what we call here pig netting (I'm not sure if thats the same sort of wire Robyn is talking about) which inhibits the climbing.
I can't comment on the breeder you're talking about, after all you know her - we don't, but I'm sure that I couldn't be classified as irresponsible because my dogs are not always on grass and my home is always open to those who ask to come and see my happy, healthy Basenjis.
My priority are my Basenjis and not in having a perfect garden!
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The color is beautiful.
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My Basenjis have a very large area (which I laughingly call my garden) to run in. At times even though there is considerable space, there are parts that are grassless owing to the amount of running and playing my dogs enjoy. I also don't have chain limk fencing as I would have Basenjis out and about on the hunt having easily climbed it!! I have what we call here pig netting (I'm not sure if thats the same sort of wire Robyn is talking about) which inhibits the climbing.
I can't comment on the breeder you're talking about, after all you know her - we don't, but I'm sure that I couldn't be classified as irresponsible because my dogs are not always on grass and my home is always open to those who ask to come and see my happy, healthy Basenjis.
My priority are my Basenjis and not in having a perfect garden!
ya I agree. Basenjis are the thing you should be worried about and as long as they are happy and healthy i dont think where they live should be an issue (as long as there is alot of space, its kept clean, and there is nothing in the area that can harm them)
your garden.
thats funny lol -
I know its a bit late to be joining this thread, and I certainly don't want to get anybody riled up or anything. I just wanted to add my 2 cents for any future reader that stumbles upon this thread.
My first 2 basenjis are from a backyard breeder. We thought we did a lot of research before hand, but when it came down to it, we just wanted a puppy "right now" instead of being on a waiting list. So we found basenji puppies in the paper & went to visit.
The breeder lived out in the country, with a good sized bit of land, a barn and a house. She bred rabbits, miniature ponies, neopolitan mastiffs, some type of cats, chinese cresteds & basenjis. All dogs were in outdoor, dirt runs, except for the cresteds, which were in the house. Bunnies were in the barn, and all bitches with litters on the ground were in secure, heated areas of the barn (heated with a heat lamp). Her puppies were available to take right that moment, and were less than half the price of basenjis we'd seen elsewhere (only $400).
The woman was extremely nice, and answered all of our minimal questions. She was clearly an animal lover. The pups were up to date on vacs, and she had just given them dewormer the day before. She said the father was "DNA tested". We didn't know what that meant, but it sure sounded fancy. We took our basenji boy home, and within 6 months, wanted another one. I wanted a dark brindle female, so when I contacted her the following year and she had one dark brindle female puppy available, I went up & purchased it without viewing any other puppies.
About 8 months after that, I realized we had dodged a very large bullet. During this time, we had realized she wasn't a "responsible" breeder. The dogs were not health tested for anything. She didn't show, and despite living within spitting distance of arguably the best coursing field in Georgia, had never heard of lure coursing. I "adopted" yodeldogs as my surrogate responsible breeder, and she has been a great asset to me over the years, especially considering she is available any time of day or night to answer my questions or field emergency "omg my dog is…. xyz... should I take it to the vet!?" She has become to me what my original breeder should be.
After looking at our first male's pedigree online, yodeldogs was able to tell us, through her own personal knowledge of his lines, that his sire was either carrier or affected. She didn't know about his dam. When I spoke with our "breeder" about Fanconi, she had never even heard of it, and had TWO more litters on the way, both sired by our male's carrier or affected dog.
As it turned out, our male was a carrier, thank God, but who knows about the others in that litter? She didn't make anybody sign a spay/neuter contract, and now our carrier male is with my ex. He has no plans to neuter, and he's even asked me about breeding him with my current girl, Callie. Under no circumstances would this ever happen in a million years, but he sees breeding as a way to make money. (See why he's my ex?)
Lola tested clear for fanconi, but we had another descrepancy with her. When we got her, our "breeder" told us that she chose to register Lola's litter with CKC because it was cheaper than AKC. It didn't matter to us at the time; we just wanted the dog. But when we heard about coursing and wanted to get involved, we learned that Lola needed an AKC registration number to participate. We assumed we could get her AKC registration since her parents were both AKC registered, but when we contacted our "breeder", she revealed that Lola was actually CKC registered because her dam was from a line that was all CKC registered. We were able to get her AKC limited registration so she could participate in coursing, but we were mislead when purchasing her on her background.
So all of this to say: picking a breeder is EXTREMELY important. Although our "breeder" seemed very nice and had an answer for everything on the surface, in the long run, she was just a very nice woman who loves animals and likes breeding them. She definitely sells them for profit. It doesn't change that she's nice & lovely & caring; however, none of that makes her a responsible breeder. Her facilities were not filthy, although I did not love that all of her animals were kept in outdoor runs all the time. Everything, on the surface, seemed great. However, she does not test her dogs, she has no spay/neuter contract, and she is not readily available to answer questions or offer support. If something were to happen & I could no longer care for Lola, she would not take her back.
This post is in no way commenting on what type of breeder Nocturnal may or may not be, and I am certainly not suggesting she is the same as my "breeder". However, to any prospective basenji owner that comes along, I think its important to urge extreme caution when judging a breeder on how nice they seem. -
I am late as well and just wanted to say, great post Andrew…I wish you didn't have to learn the hard way.
I might be one of the only ones saying this..I really don't care for the blues or diluted ones..looks washed out and not so shiny and sharp.
The puppy is/was cute, no doubt, but I prefer the regular colors. -
I am late as well and just wanted to say, great post Andrew…I wish you didn't have to learn the hard way.
We got EXTREMELY lucky… we definitely went about our learning in a round about way; however, I am just grateful we didn't learn about Fanconi after getting a basenji who developed it. I'm also fortunate there are a couple of really great local breeders & basenji owners who have helped me out along the way. It could have been MUCH MUCH worse, and I just want to prevent that worse scenario for any future owners. Owning a basenji is much easier if you have a breeder you can trust and rely on for support for the life of the animal as well as serve as a mentor/trainer/educator for all things basenji/show/performance. Even things like learning how to show or how to get into lure coursing are easier if you have a breeder/mentor to show you the ropes & cheer you on.
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The other thing that Carrie's post points out is that often we often don't know what sort of things we'd like to do with our dogs. Carrie didn't know she wanted to take her pups coursing when she brought that puppy home. When I got Digital the brindlewonderkid, I wanted a dog to show in conformation and maybe therapy work. That's what I told his breeder. I had NO idea we also wanted to do coursing, rally and agility (and tracking which I still have not done). For those who don't know, Digital easily obtained his AKC FC in 4 runs (2 best in fields) and was in the top 3 agility basenjis in the nation for 7 years running. And I'm now on my 3rd agility basenji.
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Because the color is so pretty, I am surprised breeders have not tried on purpose to generate more of them. How unique.
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Andrew,
I have rescued a couple of Bs that were CKC registered. These originally came from breeders in Southern OH who sold them to an Amish USDA breeder/dealer but I think the sire and dams came from KY. One has been tested via DNA and came back probably Fanconi Affected. Is your B, Lola, in the Basenji Pedigree Database?
Jennifer
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Andrew,
I have rescued a couple of Bs that were CKC registered. These originally came from breeders in Southern OH who sold them to an Amish USDA breeder/dealer but I think the sire and dams came from KY. One has been tested via DNA and came back probably Fanconi Affected. Is your B, Lola, in the Basenji Pedigree Database?
Jennifer
Yes she is. Unfortunately, I do not know who her dam is, so there is only information on the sire.
When I told the breeder, Carrie Bright (I think this was her last name, but for some reason, I think I've seen her last name as 2 or 3 different names), about Fanconi & her male's likelihood of being affected, she was surprised, as she had never heard of it. She was in Calhoun, GA, breeding under her young (maybe 10 years old) son's name, Dustin Brown. Soon after, yodeldog noticed some ads for basenji adults & puppies in North Georgia on those sketchy websites where you can sell your dogs. She thought it looked suspiciously like my breeder, so she passed along the info. Looks like once she found out about the liability issue (I specifically told her she was opening herself up to lawsuits since there was a test available before we even got our first male from her, so the last time I spoke to her was her 3rd year in a row using this sire AFTER TESTING BECAME AVAILABLE :mad:)If you search for "rennt" in the database, Lola (Griffin's Lola Rennt) will appear. Unfortunately, the only info I have on her dam is that she was called either Twinkle or Star. CKC will not give out information on a pedigree unless you have papers, and I long ago lost Lola's CKC papers because they're about as useful as toilet paper.
Because she was breeding under her son's name, I wonder if Carrie has gotten into trouble with AKC before. That led me to believe that Lola's dam may actually be an AKC dog that she had to register CKC in order to get around an AKC ban but still have "papers" to give puppy buyers. There is an AKC registered tri bitch named Twinkles, but with the limited color genetics information we have, it is either difficult to tell if that is her dam or if the colors were registered correctly, it disproves that she could be the dam (Lola's a brindle, and her sire, from the picture I was shown, is a brindle).
This is starting to get lengthy, but if you click on Lola's sire, Selva's Little Deer & go to breeding info, you will find Twinkle under "breeding 1" & you can trace her pedigree from there.
The TRULY scary thing is… when I was first trying to determine the likely fanconi status of my dogs (while not so patiently awaiting the results from the cheek swab), I couldn't find much information on either of my dog's pedigrees. They are cousins through Lola's sire & Booger's dam. I sent Sally Lola & Booger's info specifically because there was such a lack of information, especially as it pertained to testing, that I wanted to make it easier for anybody who got a related puppy & then later found out about Fanconi & the test. Booger is now almost 4 & Lola is almost 3, and as more of their relatives' test results are going up (still only a handful), more & more carriers are showing up, all over the place, with a few affecteds as well. And it looks as if some of these dogs are still being bred. Very scary.
Jennifer, if you can use any of this info to see if there is a connection & perhaps give me any more info at all, I would really really appreciate it. To look up Booger's pedigree, search under "Pick of the litter". He is Griffin's Pick of the litter. -
One last thing… since I've last checked the database, some new information has gone up, and a carrier has come out of Lola's sire. As far as I know, this could very well be a littermate or just a half sibling. It could have come from the dam only, but with the scant info I have, we obviously dodged 2 bullets with Booger & Lola.
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Let's leave the yard/fencing. Just the basics… they breed pets to produce things to sell. Period. Nice? How is it nice to be someone who breeds puppies to sell to be bred to death, buy and breed from puppymills, breed colors that as far as I know, no testing done to tell if the dilute (which causes major issues in some breeds) is a problem because it's a unique color she can sell. She's not a responsible breeder.
We will choose to believe what we want and that is all we can do.
No, it is NOT all we can do. We can look at facts.
As for people not KNOWING her, um… has nothing to do with it, at all. You base irresponsible or responsible breeding on ACTIONS, not how nice someone pretends to be.
Oooops, guess I shouldn't have spoken for 'everyone'
I wouldn't touch one. I have no idea of coat color genetics in basenjis, I have no idea if the dilute gene causes problems and I wouldn't support someone breeding them buy buying one. In rescue, sure, would take one. But then I'd take a zebra striped one in rescue.
But I'd need an expert on coat colors, dilute, and research to assure me this would be desirable to breed.Okay an I am a bit of a purist. I love love love the look of long haired Rotties. But they are a fault, not to be bred. Some people breed them on purpose. I think that's simply wrong. Work to change the standard, sure. But until then, I just don't see it as anything more than selling unusual dogs.
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There are many folks, some who should know better, who are selling "rare" dogs, to anyone dumb enough to buy into what they are selling.
That goes for designer dogs, mutts with gopd PR, to breeders who sell for profit.
Sad, but the dogs are the ones who suffer…as do the owners, when their beloved pets come down with things that could have been prevented! -
Andrew - your post was excellent (although I'm sorry that you've had to go through all that worry)and I hope your advice will be of help to those on the Forum who are still looking for a Basenji.
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Andrew - your post was excellent (although I'm sorry that you've had to go through all that worry)and I hope your advice will be of help to those on the Forum who are still looking for a Basenji.
Thanks. If I could, I wouldn't change a thing, because I wouldn't have Lola. BUT, I would like to know more about her pedigree/medical history behind her. But if I had gone with a rescue, I wouldn't be likely to have that information, either.
