Blue tri basenji

[Andrew]

@Basenjimamma:

I am late as well and just wanted to say, great post Andrew…I wish you didn't have to learn the hard way.

We got EXTREMELY lucky… we definitely went about our learning in a round about way; however, I am just grateful we didn't learn about Fanconi after getting a basenji who developed it. I'm also fortunate there are a couple of really great local breeders & basenji owners who have helped me out along the way. It could have been MUCH MUCH worse, and I just want to prevent that worse scenario for any future owners. Owning a basenji is much easier if you have a breeder you can trust and rely on for support for the life of the animal as well as serve as a mentor/trainer/educator for all things basenji/show/performance. Even things like learning how to show or how to get into lure coursing are easier if you have a breeder/mentor to show you the ropes & cheer you on.

[agilebasenji]

The other thing that Carrie's post points out is that often we often don't know what sort of things we'd like to do with our dogs. Carrie didn't know she wanted to take her pups coursing when she brought that puppy home. When I got Digital the brindlewonderkid, I wanted a dog to show in conformation and maybe therapy work. That's what I told his breeder. I had NO idea we also wanted to do coursing, rally and agility (and tracking which I still have not done). For those who don't know, Digital easily obtained his AKC FC in 4 runs (2 best in fields) and was in the top 3 agility basenjis in the nation for 7 years running. And I'm now on my 3rd agility basenji.

[Shaye's Mom]

Because the color is so pretty, I am surprised breeders have not tried on purpose to generate more of them. How unique.

[dcmclcm4]

Andrew,

I have rescued a couple of Bs that were CKC registered. These originally came from breeders in Southern OH who sold them to an Amish USDA breeder/dealer but I think the sire and dams came from KY. One has been tested via DNA and came back probably Fanconi Affected. Is your B, Lola, in the Basenji Pedigree Database?

Jennifer

[Andrew]

@dcmclcm4:

Andrew,

I have rescued a couple of Bs that were CKC registered. These originally came from breeders in Southern OH who sold them to an Amish USDA breeder/dealer but I think the sire and dams came from KY. One has been tested via DNA and came back probably Fanconi Affected. Is your B, Lola, in the Basenji Pedigree Database?

Jennifer

Yes she is. Unfortunately, I do not know who her dam is, so there is only information on the sire.
When I told the breeder, Carrie Bright (I think this was her last name, but for some reason, I think I've seen her last name as 2 or 3 different names), about Fanconi & her male's likelihood of being affected, she was surprised, as she had never heard of it. She was in Calhoun, GA, breeding under her young (maybe 10 years old) son's name, Dustin Brown. Soon after, yodeldog noticed some ads for basenji adults & puppies in North Georgia on those sketchy websites where you can sell your dogs. She thought it looked suspiciously like my breeder, so she passed along the info. Looks like once she found out about the liability issue (I specifically told her she was opening herself up to lawsuits since there was a test available before we even got our first male from her, so the last time I spoke to her was her 3rd year in a row using this sire AFTER TESTING BECAME AVAILABLE :mad:)

If you search for "rennt" in the database, Lola (Griffin's Lola Rennt) will appear. Unfortunately, the only info I have on her dam is that she was called either Twinkle or Star. CKC will not give out information on a pedigree unless you have papers, and I long ago lost Lola's CKC papers because they're about as useful as toilet paper.
Because she was breeding under her son's name, I wonder if Carrie has gotten into trouble with AKC before. That led me to believe that Lola's dam may actually be an AKC dog that she had to register CKC in order to get around an AKC ban but still have "papers" to give puppy buyers. There is an AKC registered tri bitch named Twinkles, but with the limited color genetics information we have, it is either difficult to tell if that is her dam or if the colors were registered correctly, it disproves that she could be the dam (Lola's a brindle, and her sire, from the picture I was shown, is a brindle).
This is starting to get lengthy, but if you click on Lola's sire, Selva's Little Deer & go to breeding info, you will find Twinkle under "breeding 1" & you can trace her pedigree from there.
The TRULY scary thing is… when I was first trying to determine the likely fanconi status of my dogs (while not so patiently awaiting the results from the cheek swab), I couldn't find much information on either of my dog's pedigrees. They are cousins through Lola's sire & Booger's dam. I sent Sally Lola & Booger's info specifically because there was such a lack of information, especially as it pertained to testing, that I wanted to make it easier for anybody who got a related puppy & then later found out about Fanconi & the test. Booger is now almost 4 & Lola is almost 3, and as more of their relatives' test results are going up (still only a handful), more & more carriers are showing up, all over the place, with a few affecteds as well. And it looks as if some of these dogs are still being bred. Very scary.
Jennifer, if you can use any of this info to see if there is a connection & perhaps give me any more info at all, I would really really appreciate it. To look up Booger's pedigree, search under "Pick of the litter". He is Griffin's Pick of the litter.

[Andrew]

One last thing… since I've last checked the database, some new information has gone up, and a carrier has come out of Lola's sire. As far as I know, this could very well be a littermate or just a half sibling. It could have come from the dam only, but with the scant info I have, we obviously dodged 2 bullets with Booger & Lola.

[DebraDownSouth]

Let's leave the yard/fencing. Just the basics… they breed pets to produce things to sell. Period. Nice? How is it nice to be someone who breeds puppies to sell to be bred to death, buy and breed from puppymills, breed colors that as far as I know, no testing done to tell if the dilute (which causes major issues in some breeds) is a problem because it's a unique color she can sell. She's not a responsible breeder.

@misspodhradsky:

We will choose to believe what we want and that is all we can do.

No, it is NOT all we can do. We can look at facts.

As for people not KNOWING her, um… has nothing to do with it, at all. You base irresponsible or responsible breeding on ACTIONS, not how nice someone pretends to be.

@Quercus:

Oooops, guess I shouldn't have spoken for 'everyone'

I wouldn't touch one. I have no idea of coat color genetics in basenjis, I have no idea if the dilute gene causes problems and I wouldn't support someone breeding them buy buying one. In rescue, sure, would take one. But then I'd take a zebra striped one in rescue. But I'd need an expert on coat colors, dilute, and research to assure me this would be desirable to breed.

Okay an I am a bit of a purist. I love love love the look of long haired Rotties. But they are a fault, not to be bred. Some people breed them on purpose. I think that's simply wrong. Work to change the standard, sure. But until then, I just don't see it as anything more than selling unusual dogs.

[sharronhurlbut]

There are many folks, some who should know better, who are selling "rare" dogs, to anyone dumb enough to buy into what they are selling.
That goes for designer dogs, mutts with gopd PR, to breeders who sell for profit.
Sad, but the dogs are the ones who suffer…as do the owners, when their beloved pets come down with things that could have been prevented!

[Patty]

Andrew - your post was excellent (although I'm sorry that you've had to go through all that worry)and I hope your advice will be of help to those on the Forum who are still looking for a Basenji.

[Andrew]

@Patty:

Andrew - your post was excellent (although I'm sorry that you've had to go through all that worry)and I hope your advice will be of help to those on the Forum who are still looking for a Basenji.

Thanks. If I could, I wouldn't change a thing, because I wouldn't have Lola. BUT, I would like to know more about her pedigree/medical history behind her. But if I had gone with a rescue, I wouldn't be likely to have that information, either.

[misspodhradsky]

@aniston2010:

Wow, I sure would like to see the rest of that dog. He *looks an awful lot like a purebred in the face…but it a possibility that there is some rat terrier, or dobe, or something that frequently carries blue in there. I would also love to see a pedigree to see if it is "different" enough for blue to be a possiblity.

The dogs are purebred Basenjis. There is no rat terrier, doberman, or another breed. They are Basenjis

I dont know alot about the blues, just what i have learned from on here (the forums from other members). I guess the blue is a dilute and it only shows up if there are 2 recessive? genes that carry the blue. Since you have to have 2 blues or two dogs that have the blue to produce a blue, and alot of basenjis dont carry it, it is, should i say?, rarely found. ? … Blue is possible to register with AKC ( I didnt know this) but since the parents were not AKC, the puppies are not eligible for registration with them.

Im not sure, correct me if im wrong anyone, but I believe this is the last blue line??? If not, is there another blue line that possibly IS AKC?

[Quercus]

@misspodhradsky:

The dogs are purebred Basenjis. There is no rat terrier, doberman, or another breed. They are Basenjis

I dont know alot about the blues, just what i have learned from on here (the forums from other members). I guess the blue is a dilute and it only shows up if there are 2 recessive? genes that carry the blue. Since you have to have 2 blues or two dogs that have the blue to produce a blue, and alot of basenjis dont carry it, it is, should i say?, rarely found. ? … Blue is possible to register with AKC ( I didnt know this) but since the parents were not AKC, the puppies are not eligible for registration with them.

Im not sure, correct me if im wrong anyone, but I believe this is the last blue line??? If not, is there another blue line that possibly IS AKC?

This spammer somehow stole my original comment…but, still, Whitney....you cannot know for sure that there wasn't some other breed mixed in there further back. That is why AKC registration is soooo important. It insures that the dogs ARE purebred. The other registrations don't. It is POSSIBLE that these are some of the remaining lines that have a recessive 'blue' gene...but it is highly improbable. It is more likely that someone accidentally, or intentionally bred in some breed that carries the dilute.

I know you believe what this woman has told you. And she may BELIEVE that these are purebred Basenjis...but she has no idea what has happened in the generations behind hers.

[misspodhradsky]

Weird. How did a spammer do that. I didnt even know that was possible!

Yes i know. Im sorry i guess i shouldnt have said anything.

[DebraDownSouth]

@Quercus:

That is why AKC registration is soooo important. It insures that the dogs ARE purebred.

Well, it's a better option than others but it doesn't really "ensure" it. I'll be glad when we reach a point where DNA testing is mandatory and routine and cheap.

[Quercus]

@DebraDownSouth:

Well, it's a better option than others but it doesn't really "ensure" it. I'll be glad when we reach a point where DNA testing is mandatory and routine and cheap.

Of course you are right…it doesn't "ensure" it, I may have exaggerated the point. And I don't spell very well either...thank god you are there to catch these things.

My point was that there is a reason that breeders choose to use registeries other than AKC in the US, and it is usually because their dogs are unregisterable with AKC because there is no paperwork to back up that their dogs are purebred.

[LindaH]

When we got Maxx back in 1995, one of his sisters was a dilute tri-color. Don't remember whether or not she had blue eyes, but she was definitely a "faded" (my term) tri-color.

[misspodhradsky]

@LindaH:

When we got Maxx back in 1995, one of his sisters was a dilute tri-color. Don't remember whether or not she had blue eyes, but she was definitely a "faded" (my term) tri-color.

Where did you get your fella at?

[Whoalookitsme]

@Quercus:

I am thinking the blue in the eyes is the reflection, not the color. Blue dobes have brown eyes, just like black ones.

Idk if that only works in dogs. but rabbits if its a blue color they must have the blue eyes or its a DQ.

Omgoodness that is a beautiful color! A little on the light side but it is just a puppy and gorgeous none the less. I wonder if you can get new colors passed in dogs like in rabbits. Trust me its a difficult process but its so rewarding to see all the beautiful colors. Chocolate has always been a favorite of mine