every time I hear things like that about raw feeding I ask myself the same questions.. what about Prime rib? what about steak served rare?. what about carpaccio, steak tartare, sushi,. and all kinds of meat and vegetables we eat raw..and like you mention. what about everyday handling of meat by.. uh everyone?
Raw vs Kibble vs Human Grade Food
elbrant last edited by
So, I'm actively seeking opinions on what seems to be "doodle BUG's" basic breakfast/dinner:
Poultry (roasted and pulled off the bird)
a variety of frozen veggies
(reheated <30 seconds in the microwave with unsalted Chicken Stock)
and a 1/2 tsp of pure pumpkin puree
Snacks include: a Kong filled with kibble and a canine miltivitamin, sealed with peanut butter (no xylitol) and other assorted nibbles through the day
The biggest concern about raw diets seems to be calcium and vitamin/mineral deficiencies, which I am addressing with the multi-vitamin. I found it at Sam's Club, VetIQ but it doesn't seem to be on the VetIQ website yet....
My issue with kibble (in general) is that, well, first) how boring and second) there are so many - all with their own advertising claims - how do you really know which is the best? btw, I used to be a faithful Science Diet kinda Gal.
Then there's the 'raw' diet. I can see raw bones... (my American Bulldog loved her chicken legs!) but a full on raw diet seems odd to me. Not to mention a bit of a mess. It's not like I can let "doodle" drag her bone onto the living room carpet while she gnaws away at it. Well, not unless I want to replace the carpeting when I move out! Yes, I know that they have packaged refridgerated raw diet products at the petfood stores, but then you have to really examine the processing, packaging, storage, and transportation methods for the different companies. That seems like 10 times more homework that comparing labels on kibble bags!
So, IYHO (in your honest opinions), does my version of a human grade diet seem reasonably appropriate? Or can you think of something that I have completely overlooked that will affect "doodle's" long-term health?
What do you think?
I think you need to consult a real nutritionist to help design a balanced diet.
A few that have good solid reputations:
We are lucky to live in an area (Netherlands) where we can buy good quality raw (deep frozen) food, with good balance between muscle, bone and organs. Also lots of varieties are available. Why would a raw diet be odd? What would basenjis eat in the wild? Meat, eggs and plants. So we feed meat, eggs (one a week) and vegetables (raw/cooked broccoli, carrot, beet, cauliflower, beans and the like). No rice, no peanut butter. Pumpkin only in case of stomach / digestive trouble. No kibble.
eeeefarm last edited by
I always find it amusing that we feel we can feed our children without having a degree in nutrition but when it comes to our dogs (an animal that evolved as a scavenger from wild canids over thousands of years) we think we need specially formulated foods produced in factories and presented in a very convenient form (kibble). There was a time not so very long ago when dogs got whatever was scrapped off the dinner plates when the family was finished, supplemented by the odd bone or trimmings off the meat being prepared in the kitchen. Sled dogs got tossed frozen fish, border collies often ate porridge, and yes, many dogs consumed grains. Farm dogs that I knew thrived without eating commercial food. But advertising is powerful and we no longer feel competent to feed our dogs.
My big race dog,Rocky(semi-retired) is on the Ketogenic diet. The reason for this is that he was diagnosed with cancer in May of 2006. This diet is raw beef,a small amount of veg.(kale,broccoili,spinach,red cabbage,etc.) and a tablespoon of coconut oil. I also add his many supplements. This diet has helped him beat the odds and he is now cancer free after being told he had 3 months to live. I also add an egg 2x a week and a pet-cal daily. I have found that this diet is also wonderful for my other dogs to keep them healthy. In a day when cancer is out of control in the canine population I will do what I can to keep my dogs from ever being affected again.
I buy a 73%/27% ground beef mix from Walmart.It comes in a tube and is very easy to handle. I also add chicken livers and chicken giblets. I package it in freezer bags and store the thawed for the day in a container in the frig.
It doesn't take long at all and I've never had a problem with it.
DebraDownSouth last edited by DebraDownSouth
Dogs live a fraction of the time we do, and the harm can be quicker. Coming from decades of raw feeders and all the issues, I think people do need help getting a balanced diet. Of course, in this country our kids aren't fed so well either with diet deficits, fat and sodium and carb excesses. So nope, wasn't saying we need a degree in nutrition to feed our dogs, but we get quite a bit of human nutrition info along the way.... should for our animal pets also. I don't know intuitively what to feed a rabbit or hedgehog or iguana. Not sure why you think taking time to learn how to do it right is nonsense.
For the record, many animals have malnutrition, are overfed, fed the wrong things. The examination of animals in the past weren't the pillars of health either. What animals ate to survive didn't even come close to being what was optimal. They'll happily wolf down feces, however parasite-infested it may be. Survival and healthy aren't the same.
So I don't have issue with commercial food any more than commercial food for people or horses or whatever. I do have issues when, gasp, someone feeds what they are eating at least a few bites and someone acts like you are poisoning your dogs. Variety is the spice of life
Looks like you could use some organ meat. You can deliver a lot of calcium by grinding up your cooked egg shells into a powder and spreading some on your food. A commercial raw brand I like is Stella & Chewy. I like their ingredient list and their dehydrated raw patties are convenient.
I've reared quite a few puppies over the past 35 + years and at one time our household included 8 Basenjis. I am down to two now but the routines are the same.
They have all done extremely well and lived long and healthy lives on commercial kibble and canned (Pedigree Chum) dog food. Yes, occasionally they get to lick plates (my home-made ice cream goes down very well) and I often cook greens (spring cabbage) cos that gets them out of their arm-chairs without fuss at night when I need them to go out and empty before bed time.
Every Friday, the butcher gives me huge haunch bones (beef) which I divest of any traces of fat and saw up - usually into two pieces. The vet is always thrilled to see such clean white teeth and healthy gums.
Treats are their own kibble. I scoop out a bowl full with the day's 'ration' in the mornings to mix with their canned food - two meals a day, morning and evening. From that bowl I take the treats they get in the woods when they come back to Mom from chasing squirrels, deer or just snuffling around. I honestly don't see how 'home cooking' for the Basenjis can improve on the balanced diet they get from good quality commercial products.
Basenjis are scavengers and will select strange things to supplement their diet. Hoover loves the peanuts which fall from the bird table and feeders and recently ate two frogs.
DebraDownSouth last edited by DebraDownSouth
Lol Sally, I'm not sure what to say. Except you probably have heard anything I might say and you don't care.
So I'm sitting here laughing because while I obviously disagree, I also think we (people in general) get our knickers in a wad about trivial things that aren't our business. The idea of some idiot telling you what to feed your dogs ...well I wouldn't mind being a fly on the wall.
I'm not sure what is more horrifying...Pedigree or frogs...but I cannot wait to tell some fanatic that I know of a breeder who feeds Pedigree and frogs are snacks. I'll let them think you supply the frogs.
You made my evening. (It's 7:20 pm here.)
wizard last edited by
I see both good and bad to raw diets exclusively. As long as you provide a well-balanced diet (vitamins, minerals, veggies, meat and organs) I see no problem. If your dog is healthy why change.
There are also good and bad kibble diets. A great source of kibble evaluation is the February issue of Whole Dog Journal, where they evaluated a large number of kibble diets based on ingredients, protein quality, etc.
My dogs live on kibble with canned food, raw patties (usually pheasant, fish, or venison), or veggies (beans, peas broccolis, carrots, sweet potatoe) added as topping. They also get apples, melon, blueberries as treats along with commercial treats.
If your dog is healthy and teeth are good, then whatever diet you are using is the right one.
You made my evening. (It's 7:20 pm here.)
I am so happy to have made you laugh, Deb !
The frogs didn't find it fun but as Hoover is of investigative turn of mind, they were behaving in a suicidal manner when they tried to escape very inclement weather and come in to the kitchen - That is Hoover territory. And anything jumping around there is fair game. I tried to save the second one, she didn't get to eat it but I guess it died of a heart attack or something. The first one jumped over the sill and before I realised that it was a very tiny wee frog, it had disappeared down her throat.
At least Keepurr didn't catch the deer he put up this morning.
But tell me what you have against Pedigree Chum ? We have fed it mixed with kibble for ever (well, in this country since 1982) and the dogs have one and all done well on it.
Moose ate one of those huge waterbugs, the outdoor-breeding cockroachs, before I realized what he was stalking. I'm pretty sure he'd have had the frog too, lol.
Pedigree has cleaned up their act a lot, but it still has mystery meat products, too much grains, etc. Grain is a cheap protein, it isn't used as well as meat, and it can cause more allergic reaction. They have some variations with more meat instead of grain for protein, but even those have mystery sources for fat and other ingredients.
Obviously dogs have survived on Pedigree, Ol Roy, table scraps whatever. I just am in the camp that thinks better quality food would be beneficial. Btw, I fed Pedigree for a few years before joining AOL's canine nutrition board. My dogs didn't die.
Our Basenji has had diarrhea issues forever and we tried everything. Royal Canin Hydrolized Protein has done the trick. Highly recommend it. (For occasional diarrhea, canned pumpkin works well. Also probiotics.)
I have to wonder, Deb, if the Pedigree in the States is of identical composition to the Chum we get here. I am certainly not aware of a high dose of grain. 'Cereals' are listed but only along with the additional vitamins and minerals, vegetable etc. The kibble I use is a hypoallergenic, based on white fish. I've never used Pedigree kibble - only Wainrights (which is probably only available in UK.
Sally I don't know. I know some of the formulas we get here in Israel are not identical to the US ones. I bet someone has it listed. ... going to check.
Okay so the sited for the UK Pedigree are as negative as the US, saying grains, grain shells, mystery fat and mystery by-products of meat.
tanza last edited by
@uconolly - Interesting mix of ingredients, don't think I would feed this... but glad that it works for your Basenji
OK, Deb, but I'm not changing now !
We've fed Pedigree Chum since 1982 (Basenjis) and for a great deal longer (a variety of dogs, mostly adopted strays).
I once did an assessment of 'ages at death' of our dogs and came up with an average age of 13.5 years. Since then we've lost dogs at 16.5, 17 and 12.75 so something's got to justify my wish to come back in a future life as a Basenji, owned by ME !
Sally, I think food helps. But genetics, good health care, all the things you do. Even the strays benefit from good care. Physically active, good weight... you do everything right, they can handle the Pedigree, lol. And an occasional frog.
I [feed mine RBBB. Raw Beef Brisket Bones which the butcher slices on his band saw to the size that I dictate. There is no residue, and the Basenji thrives on them, cleaning their teeth at the same time. At 11yo, the mother had the first teeth attention while she was under anesthetic for her desexing. They did the teeth clean, no extractions, but forgot the desexing. I thought that she come out of the anesthetic well. Another trip to the vet! We have fed her from the can, and from the table, with some kibble thrown in from time to time, and found that two meals a day is the go, and stops the erks that occur in the morning. I also have fed mine this diet since 1973, with one expiring at 18yo.
Hey, this has to be Len from Australia!
No one else I know of espouses the RBBB diet, haven't heard mention of the RBBBs for quite awhile.