I am not up to date on current rabies vaccines for dogs, but I know that in the past there was more than one formulation, as my next door neighbour's dog had an anaphylactic reaction when vaccinated and the vet made a note to use a different formulation for the next annual shot. In future the dog had no difficulties. There are known side effects to most vaccines. Aggression is not one I am familiar with, however, with rabies vaccination in countries that require it there isn't much choice. It would not be my first thought with an 18 month old dog showing aggression. Especially a Basenji objecting to being moved from a comfortable place.
Need Home for Basenji
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Sharron is 100%, this is the way to do it, I think I read something like that in a "Dear Abby" years ago and we have only been able to do it once, with a sick boy, other trips have been semi-emergent. It was the most peaceful 'final trip' for the dog, AND for us. We knew his send-off was filled with love. Later, we cried, but we made it a great last day for him, steak for breakfast, rides in the car, this is a very hard think to think about, but if it has to be done, do it right.
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Dogs live in the moment. They just enjoy what we give them. No worries about the future or "stuff". Maybe that is our ultimate gift. Anyway, If I don't have to make an emergency run to the vet for a sick dog, I will always give my dog the memory of the love I have for them.
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Sniff Lemme wipe off my tears…Sharron's idea is beautiful.
I can see from what you have written that you are Tucker's world. There is no greater gift we can give our four legged family than to allow them to trust and love. You have accomplished this.
But if there is one shred of hope, I would go for it. I know there are liabilities with biters and some reliable experts have given their opinion. That said, I'm sure some here will remember Dallas, the Basenji in Georgia who was adopted by one of our former members. She had plenty of challenges with him. Now, he is, to quote her, "an absolute love" who follows her around everywhere, doesn't fight with the other dogs and greets people without aggression. She also had some high obstacles to overcome with her Basenji bitch (once a very appropriate title for her) who now is a laid-back, play with everyone and non-aggressive girl. Some people can work with problem dogs and come out successful. Perhaps there is someone like that for Tucker. I'm just sayin'.
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Honey, we are all with you! We love you, because you love this b so very much. THERE is no way you have to tell us how you hold out hope.
So, Contact Best Friends. I have to tell you, THAT IMO, is this b's best hope, go for it.
IF you can't find that type of group to take your beloved boy, please, for his
BUT more importantly, YOUR peace of mind, give him the Rainbow Bridge. My hope, when I die,is that I can go there and love the dogs who have gone before me.
Hugs, hugs, hugs.
We are all with you and your issue. We want to support.
Hugs, hugs, hugs again.
Honey, none of us get out of this live alive, so, we can only hope that we have a kind death. I am heading toward the bridge as my age numbers get higher so, I know of what I speak. -
I have never had to do anything harder in my life then put down Leo. He was just shy of 3 years old, and the best dog you could ask for 99.9% of the time. He was born at the rescue and had been placed and returned once before he came to us. He had always been randomly aggressive, but we did our best to identify the triggers and avoid them. We talked with behaviorists and trainers and did our best, but knew we were fighting a losing battle. There was no way to identify what set him off. You could take his food away no problem, but if he was finished eating and trying to destroy the food bowl he would try to bite.
The only time he made contact biting was the day we put him down. Something just wasn't wired right, yet we still felt guilty that we were doing the wrong thing. He came to us when he was 10 months old, we only had him for 2 years. I know that the 2 years Leo spent with us were the best years of his life, he had a huge yard and a warm bed to sleep in…he was spoiled rotten. I think when you rescue a dog you feel even more responsible for them because not only did you give them a home, you saved them...you pulled them from a life of uncertainty.
My wife had a hold of Leos collar and he turned and grabbed her hand. She spent 6 hours in the emergency room and 5 months later still has problems using the little finger on her left hand. It was amazing how much damage was done so quickly. I called everybody I could think of that night. I called the basenji rescue we got him from, the trainer, the vet...and everybody said the same thing. We didn't put Leo down because it was the best thing for us, I still miss him every day. It was the the kindest thing we could do for Leo.
I know what you are going through with Tucker is extremely hard, but the years he spent with you are by far the best years of his life. I hope you are able to find someplace for him, but if you can't he won't be alone in the fields on the other side of the bridge.
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Karen at Medfly Brigade Basenji Rescue here in CA keeps the problem dogs she gets. She told me about some pretty aggressive and problem Basenjis that she's worked with over the years successfully, and still does. Maybe you could email her and ask what she thinks. She's been rescuing Basenjis for about 22 years. Here's her email address karen@basenjirescue.com.
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Ahhh, Sharron, one day I want to meet you and give you real hug!
My old red male, Congo, had the best last day.
Fast food cheeseburgers in the car (plural), a nice unleashed walk by the river, lots of reminiscing about fun times we had together, then off to the vet. I held him in my arms as he traveled on his next journey and felt so serene and full of love for my "first" b. I, too, went home and grieved. But for my red dog, I only had happiness and promises of what wonderful things were to come.
It truly is a peaceful experience, helping your pup travel the Rainbow Bridge. No more pain, no suffering, just peace and rest.
I wish you courage and strength. This will be the hardest (maybe the most important) decision you make in your life.
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Vickilb, glad to share with you this help, but so very sorry your dear b has passed on.
Maybe we can share a hug at the Evergreen Basenji Specality in Aug. in Auburn.
I will be there all 3 days.
Hugs, hugs, hugs, for your loss and bless your heart for giving your Congo peace.
IMO, that is the greatest gift we give our beloved pets, a way to excape pain, be it physical or mental. -
Hi TuckerVA, How are you doing? Have been thinking about you and Tucker and your situation and hoping you are finding a resolution.
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Hi Tucker's dad, I'm new to this forum, but I'm familiar with basenjis (and alcoholic relatives too, for that matter :)).
I hope that you've found the right solution, and while there are many here advocating the Rainbow Bridge, I can understand completely why you would resist that option. I would feel the same way, that I would be responsible for my dog's behavior and I would seek every avenue of resolution….
With that being said, I do advocate finding a new home for your great alcoholic aunt.... You said that she was cloudily related to you, and if that's the case, I think she is a disruptive factor that apparently Tucker didn't agree with.... for the record, I am not trying to justify his behavior! However, if a drunk old granny that reeks of cigarette smokes approaches me.... it may be hard for me to control my instincts, and I may actually plug my nose, gag or shiver, or run away!
(I hope that made you smile, just a little. :). ) In all seriousness, if your greatly drunk aunt is still there, there is no family rule that states you must have alcohol available, or that you permit alcohol in your home. And if she's already burned one house down.... I hope you've curtailed the smoking to the outside patio.
I think you have to try to fix both issues.... perhaps you can lean on another relative to take care of Aunty, so that you can focus on what's important to your heart?
Just my two cents. Take care!
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Hello everyone, just wanted to give an update. Quite a bit has happened. But shed no tears, I will not be putting Tucker down. I made the commitment to keeping this dog alive and giving him his forever home, and I intend to do so - just as I said I would.
With that being said, this is what's been done. I pretty much put feelers out everywhere I could. My first attempt, and most fruitful thus far, was to contact a VA CDTI, who referred me to Martin Deeley (a personal friend of CM), who didn't put me in touch with Cesar, but he referred me to George ****rell (also a personal friend to CM), a local guy who also trains dogs and is quite accomplished with 33 years experience, third generation, and has seen 17,000 dogs. We met a week ago to review some training issues and his opinion is that there is nothing wrong with the dog that cannot be controlled. But due to his unpredictability, needs to be trained and barriers need to be erected with other people around (crate & muzzle). Tucker is responding well to the training exercises, but he's no spaniel or lab and it's taking a while to get him to where I want him. I'm currently working with a lead and a plastic pinch to get him to walk properly and to sit and to base his every move on me and what I tell him to do. Every day it's 2 steps forward, and one step back, but that's 1 step of progress every day. The focus is to keep Tucker working for me rather than making his own decisions. George and I meet again in another week and I've enrolled Tucker in Saturday classes that start in June that my wife and I will attend with Tucker.
Prior to meeting with George, I had contacted Sean Hawkins, the head of the Cesar and Illusion Foundation, and have emailed several times with him. I also was able to track down the director (Jim Milio) and the producer (Sue Ann Fincke) of The Dog Whisperer. I got responses from Sean and Jim and both gave some good advice, including getting in touch with Cheri Lucas, one of CM's students. I have had some email exchanges with Cheri also. But I don't think it's going to be necessary. Tucker just needs solid direction provided by the training and the temporary barriers should keep any further bites from occurring.
I also had Dr. Jean Dodds personally read Tucker's thyroid panel (after having my vet interpret them) and I feel her take on it is the one and only take, and Tucker has normal thyroid levels. Tucker's chemical panel was normal as well - so the fact that there is nothing physically wrong with him has been confirmed.
The behaviorist, Dr. Kathrn Meyer, has kept in touch with me and knows George ****rell as well. She was at first a bit put off by my having contacted him because of his extensive use of electronic equipment to train dogs. However, she was quite pleased that George was able to properly assess that electronic equipment was not the best option for Tucker's temperment. She and I remain in touch and will explore medication once Tucker's training progresses and the need will be revisited. Doggy Prozac is on the table, but since Tucker's lifestyle is changing drastically, she want's to wait prior to trying anything further in fear of any drugs having a negative effect due to their potential to increase aggression during the initial period of the drug use.
My wife and I still feel that should be manage to get pregnant, that Tucker might not be safe to have around a child given their unpredictability once the child starts to become mobile. We also don't want to crate him 100% of the time nor do we want him to spend the rest of his life behind a muzzle. Therefore, in the interest of Tucker and my wife and I, my mother has agreed to take Tucker when that point in time arrives which, at best, wouldn't occur sooner than 9 - 10 months since we're not currently pregnant.
My mom lives alone in a loosely populated area and has seldom visits. She too has committed to meeting with a trainer there and working with Tucker in order to maintain control of him once he's in her hands. The setup at her house allows Tucker free roam of the house and fenced area and he can be blocked into any one of the areas should she have visitors. She lost her husband about 1.5 years ago, so it would be good for both of them (Tucker and mom). My family has really rallied behind me and my cause.With regard to the lady living with us, we made great leaps in progress regarding preparing her home for her to move back into. If you are just joining this thread, she was an extreme hoarder, is an alcoholic, smokes constantly and suffers mild dimensia. She set her house on fire with cigarettes and had nowhere to live and noone to take care of her, so she moved in with my wife and I in our small condo. She cannot properly comprehend the rules of the house (don't touch the dogs) and will not leave Tucker alone and therefore has been bitten twice. She just doesn't understand. (Keep in mind that Tucker has NEVER outright bitten anyone, he only reacts to situations where people reach for him) Once she found out that he might have to go away, she has found a new respect for the rules as she loves him also. She has given Tucker his space in the interim and no more incidents have occurred. Just this weekend I met with painters and cleaning folks and this part of the work could potentially be completed in the next 2 weeks, opening our home a bit and relaxing the apprehension of another 'occurance'. Keep in mind that we work 10 hours a day during the week and even spent our 1 year wedding anniversary working on this house that she will be relocated to (she has two, one burned and is soaked from firemen and is full of mold now along with ceiling high hoarding mess and the other WAS piled to the ceiling with junk and trash - hoarding mess. We are cleaning the one that didn't burn for her to live in temporarily until the one that burned can be cleaned up and renovated). Every weekend is spent on this project - we have removed 2ea 30 cuyd dumpsters of yard debris and 3ea 30 cuyd dumpsters of junk and trash from inside the house we're moving her to. (That's 6 tons of crap, for those who are mathematically challenged.) Believe it or not, Nancy has offered to take Tucker into her home after she moves, regardless of the biting issue. Not an option, but just more reinforcement of how my family has come together to save Tucker's life.
I still may submit my case to the Milan folks to see if they are interested in created a show on Tucker, but it's not a priority for me just now as much as working with Tucker to reduce his anxiety and fear. George said that Tucker bites because he feels like he has to. He does not continue his 'attack' once he bites, rather, he acts sorry for losing control. George feels Tucker can be a good dog although still will be required to be isolated around company. He thinks the crate and muzzle will be acceptable to Tucker once he is further along in his training and is more in tune with doing what I want him to do. I have had several breakthoughs while training him, but it's only been a week. I work with him at least three times a day for 15 minute intervals, drilling the lessons into him. I even go home for lunch to work with him since I live 15 minutes from work.
I also contacted both rescue organizations. basenjirescue.org and besenjirescue.us. Keath contacted me immediately and had good advice, he also helped me reach Dr. Dodds. I didn't hear back from Mike at BRAT until I sent him a nasty letter of disappointment regarding his lack of response. He pawned responsibility off on JR, who I will most likely work with on Tucker's training at some point. JR has 6 dogs now including his fosters and simply doesn't have to time to lend ATM.
I just want to say…never give up on your dog. Obviously, people here disagree as to what is best for the dog. Some of you said put him down, some supported my efforts. But what is best for you is also important, and keeping Tucker alive is the best thing for me and I'd like to think Tucker agrees that it's best for him as well. You might think this is selfish, but I would disagree. Killing an animal whom you love, in my opinion, is never 'the best option'. Who says animals don't have feelings and don't have an opinion. Who says they don't know what's coming...when you find a dog that can talk, let me know. Tucker trusts me. I refuse to let him down and my persistance has proven that there are alternatives. It just takes commitment and dedication. If you don't possess these traits, in my opinion, you've got no business having a dog.
Finally, unrelated to Tucker, my mother in law had to put one of her dogs down this past week. Bailey was a 12 yo lab from the Chillbrook line. She loved that dog more than anything, but Bailey was unable to get up when she got home one day last week. After a visit to the emergency vet, Bailey was found to have a malignant tumor in his stomach, and it was bleeding. Surgery would have extended Bailey's life by a maximum of 3 months. The family decided that they would not prolong Bailey's pain and suffering. In the last minutes before Bailey was put to sleep, Bailey got up and went to each family member, in turn, and licked the face of everyone in the family. I can't help but think he knew what was coming and that was his way of telling everyone that he understood and it was his way of saying farewell. Shortly thereafter, they helped Bailey cross the bridge.
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I don't post much, I've been gone from this forum, for the most part for quite a while, but I wanted to tell you that I think you are doing right by Tucker. My dog prior to a B was my Eski, who had similar issues with trust. I was the only one he trusted completely, and he was very unpredictable (and dangerous) with strangers. I kept him safe and sound, and kept him from getting into trouble, by keeping him away from strangers, or muzzled. Even as my life circumstances changed, (family etc) I always figured out a way to help him get through it. He was a great dog, and accepted the fella and kids I acquired as his own family. We all loved him, and it worked for his whole life, until his kidneys finally quit due to age and I helped him across the bridge.
Only you know what is right for your family and your dog. Tucker will never forget what you have done for him, and you can know you did your best for him, even in difficult times.
Best of luck to you both….
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Wow, you have a lot going on with Tucker and this woman. My hat's off to you for giving it a go and facing the challenge to keep and work with Tucker. Sounds like you have some good contacts for helping you. We'll support you here on this forum! I've had a Basenji I rescued in 1994 at 2yrs old that could bite if you grabbed or moved too fast on. He bit my other Basenji the second day we had him. I kept him and worked with him and he mellowed out over time.
Sorry to hear about Bailey, he sounds like he was a wonderful dog! Please keep us updated on how it's going with Tucker. We all learn from your experience. -
I just want to say…never give up on your dog. Obviously, people here disagree as to what is best for the dog. Some of you said put him down, some supported my efforts. But what is best for you is also important, and keeping Tucker alive is the best thing for me and I'd like to think Tucker agrees that it's best for him as well. You might think this is selfish, but I would disagree. Killing an animal whom you love, in my opinion, is never 'the best option'. Who says animals don't have feelings and don't have an opinion. Who says they don't know what's coming...when you find a dog that can talk, let me know. Tucker trusts me. I refuse to let him down and my persistance has proven that there are alternatives. It just takes commitment and dedication. If you don't possess these traits, in my opinion, you've got no business having a dog.
Im glad you are doing all you can for your dog, and I sincerely hope it works out for you. I dont know anything about the trainers you are working with but I sincerely hope they are not using CM's methods on a fearful dog. CM's methods are extremely outdated.
It isnt fair for you to judge those of us who suggested putting the dog down. It isnt about commitment, it's about reality, and from your posts, an unpredictable dog who bites and has fear issues, whom 2 behaviourists suggested putting to sleep… How are we to come to any other conclusion? Obviously we can only give our advice based on the limited information that we know.
I would do all I could for my dog and to not put him to sleep if we were in a similar situation, but there is a point where you cannot help the dog, and you have to consider their quality of life. If you can keep them away from other people and situations where they will bite then good! But that isnt always the case. -
I have chills down my spine and tears in my eyes. What an awe-inspiring post!
You are addressing both issues, and in such a pro-active way! (Concerning your Aunt, if you can get her away from the booze and get some Vitamin B supplements into her diet, you may see some of the dimensia wane…. no, I'm not a doctor, that's just from my family history. Of course, check with a doctor first. )
(Insert celebratory banners, happy faces:p, and hearts here! :))
Thanks for the update, and keep the Faith. Your determination to do the right thing for all will lead to great things!:D You made my week, and it's only Monday!
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Thanks for the update, i hope everything works out well for you. It's great that you are exploring all avenues and have a continguency plan.
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We do want to support you here. Please let us know how its going.
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Good to hear that things are working with the training. Please keep us posted..
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I'm so glad you have a plan of action. If you, or anyone lurking, need a hopeful tale of a difficult dog, i'd suggest reading "Bringing Light to Shadow"
http://www.dogwise.com/itemdetails.cfm?ID=DTB808
don't know why i did think to suggest it sooner.
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It isnt fair for you to judge those of us who suggested putting the dog down. It isnt about commitment, it's about reality, and from your posts, an unpredictable dog who bites and has fear issues, whom 2 behaviourists suggested putting to sleep… How are we to come to any other conclusion? Obviously we can only give our advice based on the limited information that we know.
I would do all I could for my dog and to not put him to sleep if we were in a similar situation, but there is a point where you cannot help the dog, and you have to consider their quality of life. If you can keep them away from other people and situations where they will bite then good! But that isnt always the case.You are correct, it is unfair of me to judge anyone. I can only do what I think is best by myself and by my dog. Different people handle things in different ways. All apologies to those who I might have offended. I tend to wear my heart on my sleeve and some of my posts might have exhibited poor judgement resulting from my desparation. I was just more than a little disappointed that the top brass at BRAT chose to ignore my situation and didn't even respond to my email. And, Sharron, I'm not talking about you, so please don't take offense. I'm not referring to JR either, he's been nothing but helpful…as best as he can given the number of fosters he's already caring for. I know there's 'bad blood' between .org and .us, and I don't want to get into that here. But the support and advice certainly didn't come from where I had expected it to come from...
