Shock collar training

[JazzysMom]

@lvoss:

I do not think it is fair for anyone to expect that they should be able to post a one sided thread and not have people speak up that there are other considerations that should be made.

I disagree. Shep said the decision had been made, and requested info as to the best collar.

Had Shep said, "I am considering the use of, and would appreciate opinions and experiences with….." that would have been an opening for a discussion as to the pros and cons of the collars.
This was not the case - a specific question was asked, and should have been answered as such.
IMO, of course.

[renaultf1]

Jazzy'sMom…I appreciate what you're trying to say...but since when have we EVER kept things completely on topic and only answered the question asked. :D:D:D It's a public forum, that's what happens. Maddening, yes...at times.

Personally I think there was a huge value in Lisa posting the information about veterinary opinions on the subject. That way the person who made the decision is armed with the facts. Very important info, IMHO, especially if they had not read it before.

And the other thing of value is that anyone else reading the thread considering using a shock collar would also have more information.

[Thylacine]

I posted the question about the collar because I HAVE tried every thing else. I have a 7 month old Basenji who is a wonderful dog but who play nips very hard. I am looking to control that issue. I am not trying to break his spirit or turn him into a zombie.

I have posted about this issue several times on this forum, and received snide remarks and non answers. This is a last ditch effort to stop my dog from biting people. We have bought dozens of books and tried every method recommended on this forum to no avail.

So know we are down to the collar. That is all that is left. If you are against collars don't use them. I am looking for information on how to use the collar to safely and effectively stop my dog from biting. If you have that information please share it. If not I will cheerfully ignore you. It is none of your business…..

[Rita Jean]

Can you tell me what kind of collar that you got? You shall not get snide remarks from me. I would much rather you do this collar than give up your dog.

There is a correct way to use a collar. I am not sure how we go about asking how I can get your email or give you mine. I think it would be better to talk about this that away.

Do you know who we have to ask?

Rita Jean

[Basenjimamma]

Rita Jean I found this regarding where to go for personal contact info..

So to protect ourselves and our members we decided that we will not allow posting personal contact information on the forum, We will not make exceptions, unless it's an emergency, and we will need to be privately contacted first at admin@basenjiforums.com

[Quercus]

@Rita:

Quercus I was just wondering if you made your living training dogs would you answer the question you just ask what collar is best. Does this not take your life line away.

JazzysMom Thank you I like your wording.

For me to each there own. HAPPY 4TH OF JULY TO ALL…..........

Rita Jean

I don't understand. Is this a question? I do train dogs as a career, though very part time. I wouldn't answer a question about which collar is best, because I don't know. I don't use them in my training, or in teaching others how to train. I may direct them to a trainer who uses them, if I feel that they have a valid need for an e-collar. How would it take my life line away? There is no shortage of people who would prefer to use positive training methods, rather than punishment methods.

[Rita Jean]

If you do not know which collar is "best" how do you know they are "all" bad? I take that as name calling when you say punishment. I do not punish my puppy that is just real wrong and sick of you. You know nothing about me or what I do and have to right.

Rita Jean

[Rita Jean]

Basenjimamma, Thank you I think we must have found it about same time but thank you. Question how do you know who Otis parents are?

Rita Jean

[Thylacine]

Rita Jean, Can you give me a basic break down on how the sitmeanssit collar works? I want to control biting and running away.

I am not that interested in using it for any kind of performance training. I am adverse to negative reinforcement and corporal punishment as well. Pharaoh is much like most aggressive Basenjis i have read about. He is very dominant.

He has three modes of biting
1. The play mode which is no real problem, but it does hurt sometimes.

2. The attention getter. If someone ignores him they will receive a painful ankle nip. He can get quit excited about this.

3. The running slash. When playing ball or chase he will take a running slashing bite on my thigh. This is the most dangerous.

He will often bite my 7 year old daughter when they are playing. My daughters reaction is to cry softly. She never remembers to scream sharply and move away from him.

[sharronhurlbut]

Thylacine, was your puppy a singleton?

[Thylacine]

If by a one puppy in litter no Ithink there wer 7. We made the mistake of getting him at 7 weeks

[sharronhurlbut]

Oh, so he never learned about bite behavior.
I would suggest you put him with a group of older b's…they will "teach" him what is acceptable and what isn't. Is that something you can do? Maybe at the breeders home?
or
Have you tried putting bitter apple on your daughter when they are playing?

[shep_18]

@Thylacine:

I posted the question about the collar because I HAVE tried every thing else. I have a 7 month old Basenji who is a wonderful dog but who play nips very hard. I am looking to control that issue. I am not trying to break his spirit or turn him into a zombie.

I have posted about this issue several times on this forum, and received snide remarks and non answers. This is a last ditch effort to stop my dog from biting people. We have bought dozens of books and tried every method recommended on this forum to no avail.

So know we are down to the collar. That is all that is left. If you are against collars don't use them. I am looking for information on how to use the collar to safely and effectively stop my dog from biting. If you have that information please share it. If not I will cheerfully ignore you. It is none of your business…..

EXACTLY!!! Thank you

[shep_18]

@Rita:

Can you tell me what kind of collar that you got? You shall not get snide remarks from me. I would much rather you do this collar than give up your dog.

There is a correct way to use a collar. I am not sure how we go about asking how I can get your email or give you mine. I think it would be better to talk about this that away.

Do you know who we have to ask?

Rita Jean

I'd tell you which one I bought but then i'm sure that would spawn more negative comments..

I asked around alot and read about the different collars and chose one based on my needs. I ended up spending more than $100 of course though lol.

[sharronhurlbut]

ok, let me ask again…HAVE you put him with a pack of b's and let them help him learn...
I have seen this done. Your b is young and can still get some help from b's who speak his dog laungage.

[Thylacine]

The breeder is a couple of hundred miles away. I will certainly try to do that if it will help. How long would I have to leave him?

He is getting some better. I cry out sharply when he hurts and tell him NO BITING! Which he understands. The problem is getting everyone to do it consistently.

He is the smartest dog that I have ever even heard of. I am sure it will not take much work with the collar to stop him. He has been clicker trained since 7 weeks and is very proud of his tricks. However, I have gradually become convinced that there will have to be some degree of negative reinforcement with Pharaoh.

Otherwise he doesn't have a great deal of behavior issues.

It is interesting that people have no problems with other dogs "teaching him Lessons" douptless with sharp teeth, but go into fits at the mention of a mild electric shock when the dog is biting a child. Weird.. When people get there minds set about hot button issues they quickly move to paint any one on the other side as evil.

[tanza]

When a dog is in a pack situation they learn how to play and 99% of the time it is an issue of a warning, not biting… using a shock collar doesn't give the same lessons. All it does, IMO is teach them when wearing the collar I get zapped...

And you really said it yourself... it is getting everyone in the house to do it... teaching him... if everyone in the house would be consistent then he would learn... and your right, leaving the pack at 7 weeks is way to young.. they miss all those lessons pups learn from each other in a pack/group situation.

[Quercus]

I give up…you are right...what you all do with your dogs is none of my business....

Why am I putting so much effort and time into trying to help people who don't want it????

Good luck, keep in touch....

[Nemo]

@Rita:

If you do not know which collar is "best" how do you know they are "all" bad? I take that as name calling when you say punishment. I do not punish my puppy that is just real wrong and sick of you. You know nothing about me or what I do and have to right.

Rita Jean

The terms "punishment" and "reinforcement" are commonly used terms in operant conditioning, there are both positive and negative forms of both. Punishment is when you do something to try to decrease a behavior, reinforcement is when you do something to increase a behavior. There are "positive" and "negative" forms of both, and they do not mean "good" and "bad" but rather you that you are "adding" something or "taking" something away. An e-collar would be an example of "positive punishment". You are adding a shock, pulse, or sound typically to decrease an un-wanted behavior.

Since I know Quercus is familiar with that terminology, I would imagine that is why she said it, but I won't put words in her mouth.

[Quercus]

@Nemo:

The terms "punishment" and "reinforcement" are commonly used terms in operant conditioning, there are both positive and negative forms of both. Punishment is when you do something to try to decrease a behavior, reinforcement is when you do something to increase a behavior. There are "positive" and "negative" forms of both, and they do not mean "good" and "bad" but rather you that you are "adding" something or "taking" something away. An e-collar would be an example of "positive punishment". You are adding a shock, pulse, or sound typically to decrease an un-wanted behavior.

Since I know Quercus is familiar with that terminology, I would imagine that is why she said it, but I won't put words in her mouth.

Exactly! You rock Thanks for taking the time to explain…I don't have the energy