To each their own opinion Debra, I am working with Oakley on other issues right now and at twenty nine months he is still maturing. I don't live my life by the "what ifs", as of right now I'm able to be with him all the time when I'm not working so yes, I cater to his wanting to be around me, it's not rewarding for me to have a dog that's not independent of me, but it's the reality..and until I'm ready to address it 100% I haven't…he has made significant progress in crating and barrier frustrations...so I'm happy with the progress, and frankly..these other issues needs to be dealt with before addressing this...in order to make me leaving him with others successful. He's a happy, healthy young boy with a complex and stubborn mind, I'm going to work with him and not fight him on evolving and adapting his behaviors. However, your concern is noted and appreciated.
Tilly's Fanconi Test Results
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I am so sorry to hear your test has come back prob affected, your girl is not the first prob aff by the sire, so he must be at least a carrier. I wish more would test. At least you are now aware and can watch out for it, there is a good support system on this forum with experience of this condition, I hope you don't need to use it for many many years.
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Sorry to hear about this.
your girl is not the first prob aff by the sire, so he must be at least a carrier
He is not tested, but he is a carrier. He had 3 litters in UK (with 2 females), all before test was available. Unfortunately, one Dam was latter tested AFS (one of pups too, but some pups are carriers, so Sire can't be AFS) and Tilly's Mum is obviously at least a carrier.
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Sorry to hear about this.
He is not tested, but he is a carrier. He had 3 litters in UK (with 2 females), all before test was available. Unfortunately, one Dam was latter tested AFS (one of pups too, but some pups are carriers, so Sire can't be AFS) and Tilly's Mum is obviously at least a carrier.
All the more reason that the owner/breeder of the dam should have tested her before using him:rolleyes:
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Yes, I agree. And if dam is clear, her owner can use Ruben for breeding.;)
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I am so sorry. She is so young and who knows what treatment advances are coming up in the near future!
Pat
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So sorry to hear this - but a heads up is better than a surprise later on.
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I believe that many have had great success with the Gonto's Diet - the Jones girls were feeding raw I believe. I see not reason why you could not do the Gonto's diet - obviously with out the blood gases etc. But the Red meat long grain protein and pet tab plus and 1 x month amino fuel along with a tbls of meat type canned food. Can't hurt and might help.
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I am so sorry. Hopefully all will go well. Many of us have been through this and it seems every case is different. We were lucky with our girl Marley. Just a couple of pills twice a day and you would never know. She had a long happy life. Fingers crossed and best wishes.
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Thanks everyone. All of your comments have made us feel more positive about Tilly's future - also at WELKS today we were overwhelmed by all the people who came over to speak to us about it - i suppose as they say bad news travels fast - but everyone was very positive about it i.e its not the end of the world, and pleased that she had been tested - i am just astounded that testing your dog over here is not a matter of course…..
Tilly only got 2nd in postgrad today - she should have won! Anyway, really enjoyed the show, and have spoken to a lot of people with years more experience than us in Basenjis who have given us so much encouragement and advice.
As for Tilly - we got home at 9pm, my mum had left a lovely roaring log fire on for us - Tilly promptly chased all the dobes away from the fire and settled down in the prime spot nearest the heat - she knows shes special! Meanwhile me n john have just poured a little of the "amber nectar" to celebrate a very enjoyable weekend - basenji people aint all that bad.
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Thanks everyone. All of your comments have made us feel more positive about Tilly's future - also at WELKS today we were overwhelmed by all the people who came over to speak to us about it - i suppose as they say bad news travels fast - but everyone was very positive about it i.e its not the end of the world, and pleased that she had been tested - i am just astounded that testing your dog over here is not a matter of course…..
Tilly only got 2nd in postgrad today - she should have won! Anyway, really enjoyed the show, and have spoken to a lot of people with years more experience than us in Basenjis who have given us so much encouragement and advice.
As for Tilly - we got home at 9pm, my mum had left a lovely roaring log fire on for us - Tilly promptly chased all the dobes away from the fire and settled down in the prime spot nearest the heat - she knows shes special! Meanwhile me n john have just poured a little of the "amber nectar" to celebrate a very enjoyable weekend - basenji people aint all that bad.
Glad you enjoyed your day:D How nice to come home to a ready made fire:D
I wish also that more people would test but hey ho! I'm not familiar with the bitch that won your class
was she a brindle? I see Tilly's full sister had a good day winning BOB. -
hi Basi - the bitch who won the class was a red - but she was withdrawn from the challenge for some reason.
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hi Basi - the bitch who won the class was a red - but she was withdrawn from the challenge for some reason.
Hmm wonder what happened there then
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Just read about your results and would join the others in saying how sorry I am.
Personally I do not agree with carriers being used as they will only produce more carriers!
The argument is used that good breed points will be lost but they are often lost any way - no guarantee that they will be passed on! 'Ss' law says they won't!Tilly is a lovely bitch - yes you were right about the results at WELKS she should have been 1st in her class. I will be very interested to read the judge's critique. The bitch was withdrawn because she had been frightened.
Best wishes for future successes.
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Just read about your results and would join the others in saying how sorry I am.
Personally I do not agree with carriers being used as they will only produce more carriers!
The argument is used that good breed points will be lost but they are often lost any way - no guarantee that they will be passed on! 'Ss' law says they won't!Tilly is a lovely bitch - yes you were right about the results at WELKS she should have been 1st in her class. I will be very interested to read the judge's critique. The bitch was withdrawn because she had been frightened.
Best wishes for future successes.
A carrier bred to a clear will produce carriers AND clears…you could keep a clear and be done with carriers (by having them spayed or neutered) in one generation.
I can respect that you wouldn't want to use a carrier...but there is nothing wrong with breeders who do.
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Everytime we choose not to use a dog diversity is lost in our genepool. We lose so much already due to things like popular sire syndrome it would IMO be catastrophic to the breed to further reduce diversity by eliminating all carriers simply because they are carriers. There are far more issues in the breed than just Fanconi and all bottlenecking for one reason or another will only help to express other issues in the breed like a rise in PRA, HD, Hypothyroidism, or some other condition that may currently be quite rare. It is better for the breed that the gene is eliminated over several generations.
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Even though I am not a breeder, I totally agree with using carriers and even male affecteds bred to a clear. I rescue Bs and have had only a few affecteds but I have quite a few with different eye diseases, probably all of them genetic. I worry about the other diseases that will occur more frequently when one limits the breeding diversity!
As long as the breeder keeps track of the carriers and do not allow them to breed to another carrier and/or affected then I see no problem. I do know accidents and things happen though.
Owning and taking care of an affected is not the worst thing that could happen. I own one and she is doing great at 10 1/2.
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And if you go to my website you all will see that I am planning a co-breeding this fall that will be Affected (via frozen since the male is deceased) to Clear… we thought long and hard about this... however, we are responsible and knowing that all will be carriers it is the breeders responsibility to make sure they know where all those pups are and what people are doing with them... same goes for any Carrier to Clear... some will be clear, some will be carriers.. it then becomes the breeders responsibility to make sure they know everything there is to know about the homes, the people, what is happening to those pups.... We are IMO, shooting ourselves in the foot to throw out Carriers and Affected males (especially ones that have been collected)... my personal opinion is I would never use an affected bitch, but to throw out these others is really to limit our already limited gene pool. We are doing this breeding because there is great temperament and the particular male has produced some very nice dogs, since he was used before 1. the Fanconi test and 2. Before he started spilling.... dogs that IMO we should not want to lose to the breed.... And the fact that Fanconi is a recessive gene, with responsible breeders we can eliminate over several generations.
And lvoss is so right... Fanconi is NOT the only problem our breed has... we need now as responsible breeder work towards elimination of those too.... Sometimes I just scratch my head seeing some breedings that the dogs are DNA for Fanconi and nothing else, yet you look at the pedigree and see Hip problems, eye problems, thyroid problems...etc.... and then people try and justify breeding those dogs regardless... to on top of that reduce the gene pool is just putting ourselves back to the HA days
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We are very lucky to have good breeders working to improve the health of our beloved breed.
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Dear All
Quercus,I totally agree that it is an individual thing - obviously breeders do have their own good reasons for using carriers, affecteds etc. and I'm certainly not saying they are wrong. - this is my personal opinion about not using carriers.
Tanza, I also agree that there is more to worry about than Fanconi which is not a very well researched syndrome in the UK. I strongly feel that the Basenji's kidney function needs research too but being a minority breed I know this will not come about.
I agree too that the gene pool is limited but interestingly when I asked Steve Gonto why he thought that we do not have a major Fanconi problem here (UK) he replied that it was because our gene pool was smaller!! Fortunately in the UK we do not have a lot of recognised problems but as I look at many of the dog's constructon I foresee some arising in the future.
Another problem we have here is that few suitable homes are available so that selling carriers of any disease could be difficult. I have kept all but one of my last litter because although there was, and is a good deal of interest I only found one person who was a suitable owner.
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Another problem we have here is that few suitable homes are available so that selling carriers of any disease could be difficult. I have kept all but one of my last litter because although there was, and is a good deal of interest I only found one person who was a suitable owner.
Just curious…are you talking about a suitable owner for a basenji in general or a suitable owner for a carrier.
