Get your Basenji Fanconi DNA tested today!
I have been a BRAT foster home for several years and hosted many basenjis. There is no limit on how long a basenji will be fostered and depends completely on the dog's needs and the availability of a suitable adopter when the dog is ready to move on. I have adopted two fosters who were both here longer than normal due to health issues. A foster home in MO frequently ends up with basenjis who have serious health or behavior problems. They have lots of room on their farm so can manage several basenjis at once although the work is demanding, sometimes overwhelming. Currently they have 9 fosters and have adopted others who were deemed to be unqualified for other placements due to age or other problems. Two fosters have been with them for 4years. BRAT will have a dog PTS if it is suffering from physical illness or too aggressive to be placed. If they are old, have Fanconi or other manageable illnesses they may remain in a foster home until they die a natural death. We always need more foster homes.
It must be difficult though, to allot funds for medical care, and foster space that is always in need, to an animal once you know it is not adoptable. There are just too many animals in need, and only so much that can be done. It must feel like a no-win situation sometimes.
I don't know what is the deciding factor on when a dog or foster is ready to move on in that situation, if that makes sense.
The foster situation is purely voluntary, so no money goes towards that, but vetting does and kenneling if needed does, so yes it does cost money to have these dogs around, and yes you have to be a very special person to be able to subject yourself to harm or the potential of harm, knowing this dog will never be adoptable..what do you do..?
The only human thing to do, is to let that dog go..across the bridge..such a hard option though…but necessary..I think.. i am very much on the fence on this one. One minute it makes sense to me to just let that dog go, the next minute it sounds like an aweful option..
I don't think I can tell when that time is, unless I am put up to that decision..
I would get the strength, when I would need for me to have the strength..
This sounds like a common dilema. Therefore what guidelines should be determined to make those kinds of decisions? Another problem that arises is really based on how many people are deciding in particlar cases such as these.
Add to the mix the question of how much in resources should be used or allotted for an animal that may never be suitable as a pet? Also is fair to the dog and the foster homes for these dogs to be left in a foster situation for extended periods of time? The question of how long is long enough still begs to be answered!
I think this would make a good topic for discussion.
When you as a rescue worker go to evaluate a Basenji that is being considered for Rescue, what steps do you follow?
What do you look for when evaluating the dog?
What disqualifies a dog that is being considered for Rescue?
+1 lvoss, +1 tanza and +1 quercus.
I will also admit that I have been concerned.
One concern I had was about funding - especially in light of the fact that Vicki often talks about getting her vet to help fund the care for her dogs. I do think it is a little disconcerting not being able to afford transport for the dog and then in turn needing the vet to donate care. That said, it is between Vicki and her vet.
Really though, my main reason for concern besides the biting factor is that of 5 basenjis, 3 were being added into a pack situation so close together (1 in late July, 2 in November - 1 that is food aggressive was added 2 wks ago) without a settling in/calming down period for the newly added. Personally for me, I've found that each time a new basenji has come into my house (I have 3 - there has been a year in between each new addition), it has taken some adjustment time, 1 - 3 months, for the existing dogs and the new dog, some of it easy, some of it not so easy. So from what I've seen in my house (and none of mine have biting/aggression issues), yes, I would say I'd be concerned about adding multiple unstable dogs to a pack that quickly.
That said, I completely trust Kathy (Khanis) and I'm sure she has "seen it all" and if she had any concern about this dog going to Vicki, I don't think it would be happening. I also realize that this is the internet and you never really do have the complete picture from this sort of discussion. I'm quite confident that Kathy has a much better understanding than the rest of us pundits. :o
I do agree with what you have posted here with exception. As far as I have read and know from the net, Kathy(Khanis) has not had this dog in her possession for an extended period of time. I also do no know if she evaluated this dog. What I do know is that Kathy(Khanis) and I spoke. Miranda and I are considering bringing in a show quality dog into our home. I contacted Kathy in regard to a Beautiful Show Quality dog that she had posted in this forum who is needing a home. Kathy and I spent time on the phone discussing the possibility but Kathy was quick to point out that it was not a good idea to bring another Male Basenji unless its a puppy into our home with the 1 year 9 month old Basenji we already have. Again this is a beautiful dog she has posted that needs or needed a home in this forum. Kathy did go on to say that we might consider a puppy from one of her up coming liters.
Given that Kathy felt that way in regard to us bringing an older male in the home with our male, I would really like to see Kathy post in regard to this dog going to Vicki. Kathy could certainly express to us if she had this dog her possession long enough to evaluate it and what her thoughts are.
Regarding the financial aspect and requesting help for the B-boy, Vicki had just taken in a dog, had the vetting done, paid for the travel, etc. Khanis is a student and didn't have the money to spare. The foster this boy was in obviously was desperate to have him out of her house. Together, Vicki and Khanis did some research, communicated with BRAT and the foster, came to a decision and requested some assistance. Some of us felt comfortable giving that assistance and did so. And felt good doing it.
Regarding hoarding…I guess my gramma could be considered a hoarder. She has two dogs, three cats, three breeding pairs of Macaws, at least 25 smaller green parrots, some who breed, a Lovebird, three "Rooster"-atiels and one disabled crow. One of those two dogs is a Basenji I took to her last year. She is 91 years old and on a fixed income. Her house is not spotless, but it is not unhealthy either.
Does she meet the criteria?
AJ's Human, I see the points you are attempting to make here in regard to this situation and can appreciate them. After reading them, I find that I have to ask if you know personally who they contacted in Brat and what information was actually given. I think its good to feel good about helping others and I think you will agree that sometimes we do things in life with good intention because we care or care too much at times.
I really think its time to present the facts correctly here!
The foster home was not a foster home. Lets please reference these people as owners. The people involved signed a hold harmless contract with Brat which gave them full ownership and released Brat for all liability. After the Owner/ Trainer realized they had made a big mistake they were not
only desperate but in a big hurry to rid themselves of this dog.
Wow, I really wish I could go to that….
The trick with Cesar Milan, is to listen to his advise and not his methods. His teachings on staying calm, strong posture, the way a dog thinks and interprets situations is spot on IMO. The advise he comes with between the sessions on the show is the most interesting.
However people quickly forget that his show is about fixing "problem" dogs, not raising dogs. Like he says in the show, he trains people. If you read his books you quickly realize he is not really all about being strict.
What is sad, is when people watch his show, and then go right ahead and use his techniques on their dog as a regular method. Which I have seen very often.
I saw this girl walking her Shih Tzu, and she constantly kicked the dog on the side while walking whenever the dog wanted to move over to the grass (most likely to pee/poo). But this girl was so strict in keeping her dog to "walk nicely" she forgot that it has to be allowed to sniff and do it's business! I got real mad and commented when I passed her "Who do you think you are Cesar Millan?".
I did talk to a guy on the Cesar Millan forums some 3 years ago, and he had a Basenji. Took a private session with Millan, he said (as they always do) he worked wonders and was not as violent as people think.
I also have read Cesar books and agree here. His show is about working with problem dogs and of course they are all edited. His books do not preach aggression or even striking a dog. We raised our Basenji using many of the techniques he mentions in his books. Those techniques involve staying calm, patient, taking long walks with your dog to bond, and establishing a pack mentality. The Pack order is a very important lesson in Cesar's books.
Cesar is very smart in the way he communicates that our dogs draw energy from us. If we are nervous our dogs pick it up. If we are angry our dogs pick it up, and when we are calm, our dogs pick it up as well.
I would suggest that people at least read through Cesar's books before coming to a conclusion on what he is all about.
One of the most important lessons I think anyone can learn from him is to allow your dog to be a dog.
Victoria is also a great trainer.
I would suggest that animal hoarding has more than one level and more than one stage involved. In fact Illinois is the only state with a legal definition of what animal hoarding is.
With that said, here are some more thoughts on Animal Hoarding taken from the article post at the link below on the web:
"Animal Hoarding Linked to Mental Illness
According to the Hoarding of Animals Research Consortium (HARC) Intervention Manual, animal hoarders suffer from a range of mental illnesses, including:
- obsessive-compulsive disorder
- obsessive-compulsive personality disorder
It should be stressed that animal hoarding is not a legitimate effort to rescue or shelter homeless animals. Pet hoarding is a means of collecting and controlling large numbers of animals and focuses on the person's need to accumulate these animals rather than on the physical or health care needs of these pets."
There is a big difference between 8, or 10 or even 20 well cared for dogs, and the animals that overwhelm the home and resources of a true hoarder. The standard of care, not the number of animals is the tipping point.
According to The Hoarding of Animals Research Consortium, the following criteria are used to define animal hoarding:
- More than the typical number of companion aniamls
- Inability to provide even minimal standards of nutrition, sanitation, shelter, and veterinary care, with this neglect often resulting in starvation, illness, and death
- Denial of the inability to provide this minimum care and the impact of that failure on the animals, the household, and human occupants of the dwelling
The thyroid meds, vet appointments, vet help with Dallas, surgery on Rocky's neck, etc. all clearly negate the second and third criterion.
I'm not here to hijack this thread or to get into an argument with anyone, so I will not say any more here, but just in case anyone here has to deal with a true hoarder, please spend some time at http://www.tufts.edu/vet/cfa/hoarding/index.html , especially in the Intervention section.
Nicole, may I suggest to you that there are volumes of information on the net in regard to hoarding. The animals also do not have to be suffering for a person to be considered a hoarder or meet all of the tests either.
I posted links instead of other characteristics and tests, but there are several tests in different articles published on the net that I did post a link for where those tests and/or characteristics have been met.
Let me know if you want me to post a list of articles that will illustrate it clearly that you can read personally. The information below is from the same article you found yourself. Much more there than what you quoted.
This is right from the link below in the FAQ's
What are the demographics of animal hoarding?
The stereotype of an animal hoarder is that of a single, older woman, living alone and socioeconomically disadvantaged. Like any stereotype, there is some support in existing data. However, it is important to recognize that hoarding knows no age, gender, or socioeconomic boundaries. It has been observed in men and women, young and old, married as well as never married or widowed, and in people with professional or white collar jobs. There have even been hoarders among human health professionals and veterinarians and veterinary technicians who manage to live a double life, deceiving friends and co-workers about the true conditions at home"