@nancyss Thank you very much Nancy 🙂 It is still under plan, for sure i will inform to you!. Same as for you more than welcome to our home (Istanbul)
Recommended Vaccinations?
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My vet must be on the cautious-but-willing side and is slowly switching to multi-year vaccines (including the DHP) and agrees the vaccines should be spaced out. He recommend the lyme because it has a hot spot here (and he's seen lots of dogs getting it; it was first discovered in CT by the way) – although Gossy had a slight reaction to the vaccine (the injection spot swelled slightly and became sensitive to touch) and he mentioned the lepto but didn't push it (not common in city dogs anyway). He didn't however recommend the nasal spray for bordello but thought the injection is better - some of the day care places I checked require it be given every 6 months (!) - but then they dump all the dogs together in one room for play (the day care I found for Gossy only does 4 dogs at a time).
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Ok… good tip. Thanks. So does that mean there is a different vaccination that will last for 3 years? or does that mean that the "yearly" vaccinations can be effective for 3 years?
There is not a different vaccination for 3yrs, the one that they give for "one year" is really good for 3… just like rabies... as in when you have a pup and you give the rabies at 4 to 6 months of age and then one at a year, then (depending on your state laws) one every 3yrs, it is all the same vaccination...
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Thanks for everyone's input! I love this forum!
Well I'll talk to the vet about it, if the 1 year vaccines were actually good for 3 years then the only vaccination needed is the Rabies for Tayda.
Yep, I actually live not far from Lyme, CT where Lyme first appeared!
I have a couple weeks still before their appointment - Tayda will be getting her 2nd Fanconi followup also! Fingers crossed her values have stabilized! I've finally got her taking all 4 bicarbs in one lump of cream cheese! I hope I don't have to up her doseage again…
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My feeling is that too many yearly shots can make a basenji sick.
They just don't need them. -
Here is a link with various vaccine protocols.
http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/vaccine-protocols.html
The vast majority recommend vaccinating every 3 years.
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Michelle…thanks for posting and asking this question...I was going to ask the same thing. I just had Brando's 3yr rabies done and have his and Ruby's annual exam scheduled in the middle of May...and was wondering what other shots people were doing. Good timing!
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Hey no problem! It's funny, I don't take any vets advice before posting it here for the peanut gallery and finding out what others do!
When the lady on the phone said giving rabies and DHLPP at the same time was fine… i was already typing www.basenjifor…. as I was hanging up with her. lol.
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There are still many Vets of the "old School"…. and stand by their yearly schedule or that it is not a problem to do everything at the same time... I think one of the reasons for "everything" at the same time came about because people didn't want to pay for another office visit.... and then for yearly shots.... Vets didn't want to lose the money.....
The old "damned if you do....".... if you don't" -
What about the low cost vaccinations that are offered at Petco and other places…. There's one here in a few weeks - charging $15 for a 3 year rabies vacc or $38 for the Rabies and DHPP combo... I just called my vets office and they actually charge about the same for Rabies and DHPP but also $60 for an office visit.
Anyone ever use those types of places for vacc?
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I do titers testing after the initial vaccs. The last two times my dogs went in for the tests they did not have to get distemper or parvo shots. There's a thread on here somewhere that talks about titers testing.
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What about the low cost vaccinations that are offered at Petco and other places…. There's one here in a few weeks - charging $15 for a 3 year rabies vacc or $38 for the Rabies and DHPP combo... I just called my vets office and they actually charge about the same for Rabies and DHPP but also $60 for an office visit.
Anyone ever use those types of places for vacc?
I have never used one, but usually it was time for a check up for mine anyway…. didn't you say that it would be Tayda's Fanconi check up time and that rabies were due?
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I follow the same routine as Pat and Lisa. DAHPP (no lepto) and rabies every 3 years, separated by 3-4 weeks. Lepto is a more common reactive vaccine, and doesn't cover everything anyways. Bordatella doesn't last long, doesn't cover everything, and isn't as serious. Lyme is not a huge concern, although some of the lure fields I go to have lots of ticks. Corona is not necessary either.
I prefer to keep things to a minimum. I would strictly do titres if I could, but one of my clubs/organizations does not allow titres at this time. I stay away from training facilities that require whopping combos of shots, I don't feel that's good for my dogs. Responsible owners are what will keep your dog healthy, not crazy shot schedules. I don't board, but anyone who does will probably have to get bordatella unfortunately. I have traveled across a good portion of the country with my dogs and have done quite a bit of competing at all different kind of venues. I have never had a problem with any of my dogs, even though we've been in some pretty tight quarters before with other dogs. The only thing I've ever had to deal with was a little giardia that I probably got from back home on the farm. lol
Like others have said, some vets are slow to change over to 3 year vaccinations, but all US Veterinary Colleges have now adopted the 3 year rule. And almost all states have gone to the 3 year rabies. There is currently a 7 year rabies challenge study going on. I know quite a few people that have older dogs who have been titred and never needed another shot since their 1 year puppy booster. The vaccine is exactly the same whether it's 1 or 3 years. And same amount, no matter the size of dog. (it's not like wormer) I see several places charge a different amount for the 3 year, probably because they won't get your money the other two years. lol
The low cost vaccine clinics are probably fine, they would be using the same vaccines. They just aren't going to give your dog a good looking over first, and it's not a good idea to vaccinate a dog who isn't feeling up to par. So if you're only vaccinating once every 3 years, no reason not to get it done at a vet check-up. However when you space out the shots, the 2nd one could be done at a cheaper clinic, just keep an eye on their location/cleanliness. Or spread them out, do rabies one year and distemper the next, so they never fall in the same year again.
It's amazing what over-vaccinating can do to the immune system.
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Also, good luck for Tayda's 2nd follow-up!
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Michelle - I sorted vaccine options last year. Here's the link of posts as I made my decision.
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=3585Duke was titer tested ($60) but that would've been the cost anyway for the full round of annual shots. The vet I ended up talking with said I could probably wait 2-3 years between testing again. She was aware of my concern not to over-vaccinate. Though titer testing in that office was not the norm.
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I like the concept of titers testing for rabies. I'm willing to pay for the test, but how the heck do you get around the city/state regulations that require a rabies vac. on a regular (1-3 year) basis for registration and tagging??
Without a vac, we can't get tags. Without a tag, we get fined.
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I do titers for my 2 b's and have not had any shots except rabies for years.
Sadly, the 3 yr rabies shot is the LAW, so even tho I don't like to do it, I do.
Until that is changed, we will all have to follow that mandate. -
what do y'all vaccinate your dogs for? I know some of it will be region specific… I don't to vaccinate unnecessarily but I also don't want to leave them too vulnerable to anything
Tayda_Lenny,
You might find the following information helpful in making your decision.
There is much confusion in the general public about the duration of immunity of canine vaccines. Below is a copy of my testimony and model disclosure submitted to Maine's Agriculture Committee in support of LD 429, the nation's first pet vaccine disclosure legislation, which was introduced on my behalf by Representative Peter Rines of Wiscasset.
February 27, 2005
TO: The Agriculture, Conservation and Forest Committee
RE: LD 429, An Act to Require Veterinarians to Provide Vaccine Disclosure Forms
My name is Kris Christine and I live with my family in Maine. Before I begin my testimony, I?d like to advise the committee that one of the world?s leading veterinary research scientists, Dr. W. Jean Dodds, wanted to be here today to testify in support of LD429, but could not do so because of prior commitments. With her permission, in the attachments to my testimony, I have included her letter to Representative Peter Rines dated February 17, 2005 (Attachment 5) resolutely endorsing this first-in-the-nation veterinary vaccine disclosure legislation.
I am here today to respectfully urge this committee to recommend passage of LD429 ? An Act to Require Veterinarians to Provide Vaccine Disclosure Forms because pet owners need the scientifically proven durations of immunity (how long vaccines are effective for) in order to make informed medical choices for their animals.
Many Maine veterinarians have failed to inform clients that most core veterinary vaccines protect for seven or more years, and pet owners, unaware that their animals don?t need booster vaccinations more often, have unwittingly given their companions useless booster shots ? taking an unnecessary toll on their finances and animals? health. The human equivalent would be physicians vaccinating patients against tetanus once every year, two years, or three years and not disclosing that the vaccines are known to be protective for 10 years.
For years veterinarians have sent pet owners annual, biennial and triennial reminders for redundant booster shots and justified it with vaccine manufacturers? labeled recommendations. According to the American Veterinary Medical Association?s (AVMA) Principles of Vaccination (Attachment 6), ?..revaccination frequency recommendations found on many vaccine labels is based on historical precedent, not on scientific data ? [and] does not resolve the question about average or maximum duration of immunity [Page 2] and..may fail to adequately inform practitioners about optimal use of the product?[Page 4] .? As the Colorado State University Veterinary Teaching Hospital states it: ??booster vaccine recommendations for vaccines other than rabies virus have been determined arbitrarily by manufacturers.?
Dr. Ronald Schultz, Chairman of Pathobiological Sciences at the University of Wisconsin School of Veterinary Medicine, is at the forefront of vaccine research and is one of the world?s leading authorities on veterinary vaccines. His challenge study results form the scientific base of the American Animal Hospital Association?s (AAHA) 2003 Canine Vaccine Guidelines, Recommendations, and Supporting Literature (Attachment 7). These studies are based on science ? they are not arbitrary. The public, however, cannot access this data. The American Animal Hospital Association only makes this report available to veterinarians, not private citizens, and Maine?s pet owners are unaware that the AAHA Guidelines state on Page 18 that: ?We now know that booster injections are of no value in dogs already immune, and immunity from distemper infection and vaccination lasts for a minimum of 7 years based on challenge studies and up to 15 years (a lifetime) based on antibody titer.? They further state that hepatitis and parvovirus vaccines have been proven to protect for a minimum of 7 years by challenge and up to 9 and 10 years based on antibody count. So, unless the Legislature passes LD429 requiring veterinarians to provide vaccine disclosure forms, dog owners who receive an annual, biennial, or triennial reminders for booster shots will not know that nationally-accepted scientific studies have demonstrated that animals are protected a minimum of 7 years after vaccination with the distemper, parvovirus, and adenovirus-2 vaccines (see Page 12 AAHA 2003 Guidelines attached, and Table 1, Pages 3 and 4).
"My own pets are vaccinated once or twice as pups and kittens, then never again except for rabies,? Wall Street Journal reporter Rhonda L. Rundle quoted Dr. Ronald Schultz in a July 31, 2002 article entitled Annual Pet Vaccinations may be Unnecessary, Fatal (Attachment 2). Dr. Schultz knows something the pet-owning public doesn?t ? he knows there?s no benefit in overvaccinating animals because immunity is not enhanced, but the risk of harmful adverse reactions is increased. He also knows that most core veterinary vaccines are protective for at least seven years, if not for the lifetime of the animal.
The first entry under Appendix 2 of the AAHA Guidelines (Attachment 7) ?Important Vaccination ?Do?s and Don?ts? is ?Do Not Vaccinate Needlessly ? Don?t revaccinate more often than is needed and only with the vaccines that prevent diseases for which that animal is at risk.? They also caution veterinarians: ?Do Not Assume that Vaccines Cannot Harm a Patient ? Vaccines are potent medically active agents and have the very real potential of producing adverse events.? Very few pet owners have had this disclosed to them.
The AVMA?s Principles of Vaccination (Attachment 6) states that ?Unnecessary stimulation of the immune system does not result in enhanced disease resistance, and may increase the risk of adverse post-vaccination events.? (page 2) They elaborate by reporting that: ?**Possible adverse events include failure to immunize, anaphylaxis, immunosuppression, autoimmune disorders, transient infections, and/or long-term infected carrier states. In addition, a causal association in cats between injection sites and the subsequent development of a malignant tumor is the subject of ongoing research.?(**Page 2)
Referring to adverse reactions from vaccines, the Wall Street Journal article cited above (Attachment 2) reports: ?In cats there has been a large increase in hyperthyroidism and cancerous tumors between the shoulder blades where vaccines typically are injected.? With modified live virus vaccines (distemper, parvovirus, hepatitis), some animals can actually contract the same disease which they are being inoculated against. If the public knew an animal?s immunity to disease is not increased by overvaccination, they would certainly not consent to expose their pets to potential harm by giving them excessive booster shots.
Veterinary vaccines are potent biologic drugs ? most having proven durations of immunity much longer than the annual, biennial or triennial booster frequencies recommended by vaccine manufacturers and veterinarians. They also carry the very real risk of serious adverse side affects and should not be administered more often than necessary to maintain immunity.
The extended durations of immunity for vaccines is not ?new? or ?recent? science as some members of the Maine Veterinary Medical Association (MVMA) have claimed. AAHA reveals on Page 2 of their Guidelines that ideal reduced vaccination protocols were recommended by vaccinology experts beginning in 1978. A Veterinary Practice News article entitled ?Managing Vaccine Changes? (Attachment 3) by veterinarian Dennis M. McCurnin, reports that: ?Change has been discussed for the past 15 years and now has started to move across the country."
According to a September 1, 2004 article in the DVM veterinary news magazine (Attachment 1), the 312 member Maine Veterinary Medical Association (MVMA) ?champions full disclosure of vaccine information to pet owners.? MVMA president, Dr. Bill Bryant, is quoted as stating: ?Its time for something like this to come out ? disclosure forms will be an important resource to have available, [and] if it goes before the Legislature, we?d likely support it.?
It is time. Pet owners have the right to know the scientifically proven durations of immunity for the veterinary vaccines given their animals, as well as the potential adverse side effects and benefits. LD 429 would make that standardized information available to all pet owners.
Respectfully submitted,
Kris L. Christine
AttachmentsMODEL CANINE CORE VACCINE DISCLOSURE FORM
Prepared by Kris L. Christine
Vaccines have played a significant role in enabling animals to live longer and healthier lives. Thorough evaluations of the risks of the disease, and those potentially associated with the vaccine, compared to the benefits of vaccination for the patient, are necessary in crafting optimal health recommendations that include vaccination.
The proper application of vaccines to animal populations has enhanced their health and welfare, and prolonged their life-spans. The risks to animal health from non-vaccination are significant. However, vaccination is a potent medical procedure associated with both benefits and risks for the patient. Adverse events, including some that are potentially severe, can be unintended consequences of vaccination. Because vaccinating an animal which is already immune to a disease does not increase their immunity, but does expose them to the risk of adverse reactions, it is important to avoid overvaccination. Blood titers can help determine whether an animal?s antibody count is at protective levels.
The risks associated with the core canine diseases are as follows:
1. Distemper ? high rates of morbidity and mortality from respiratory, gastrointestinal and neurological abnormalities; a widespread disease
2. Parvovirus ? high rates of morbidity and mortality resulting primarily from gastrointestinal disease; this disease has worldwide distribution;
3. Canine Adenovirus ? high rates of morbidity and mortality from liver dysfunction
4. Rabies ? nearly universally fatal neurological disease. Infected animals are a potential source for human infection, thus vaccination is mandated by law in most states.
The risks associated with vaccination are as follows:
Possible adverse events from vaccination include failure to immunize, anaphylaxis, immunosuppression, autoimmune disorders such as hyper/hypothyroidism, polyarthritis, allergies, transient infections, and/or long-term infected carrier states. In addition, a causal association in cats between injection sites and the subsequent development of a malignant tumor is the subject of ongoing research.
Optimal immune responses are obtained by vaccines administered singly three to four weeks apart rather than in combination shots. Single vaccine administration also reduces the likelihood of adverse events as well as increasing the animal?s immune response. Only healthy animals should be vaccinated.
Except for the rabies vaccine, manufacturers? labeled revaccination recommendations are based on limited scientific data and do not contain information on the vaccine?s maximum duration of immunity. The tables below contain the minimum duration of immunity data from the canine vaccine studies performed by Dr. Ronald Schultz, Professor and Chair of the Pathobiological Sciences Department at the University of Wisconsin School of Veterinary Medicine, which form the scientific base of the American Animal Hospital?s 2003 Canine Vaccine Guidelines, Recommendations, and Supporting Literature.
If your animal experiences any of the following symptoms after vaccination, you should contact your veterinary care provider immediately: fever, vomiting, diarrhea, uncontrollable trembling, lack of coordination, seizures or a hard lump at the vaccination site which doesn?t disappear after a couple of weeks.
continued below
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continued from above
Table 1: Minimum Duration of Immunity for Canine Vaccines
Vaccine Minimum Duration Methods Used to
Of Immunity Determine Immunity
Canine Distemper Virus (CDV)
Rockborn Strain 7 years/15 years challenge/serology
Onderstepoort Strain 5 years/9 years challenge/serologyCanine Adenovirus-2 (CAV-2) 7 years/9 years challenge-CAV-1/serology
Canine Parvovirus-2 (CPV-2) 7 years challenge/serologyCanine Rabies 3 years/7 years challenge/serology
Data from Duration of Immunity to Canine Vaccines: What we know and Don?t Know by Dr. Ronald D. Schultz, Professor and Chair, Department of Pathobiological Sciences at the University of Wisconsin School of Veterinary Medicine.
Note: Challenge studies are those in which an animal is vaccinated, isolated for a number of years, and then injected with high doses of virulent virus to test its immunity to disease. Serology is the method of counting antibody levels in the blood to determine an animal?s immunity.
Duration of Immunity: The Rabies Vaccine Challenge - Show #185 Animal Talk Radio Show 7/30/08 http://www.blogtalkradio.com/animaltalknaturally/2008/07/30/Duration-of-Immunity-The-Rabies-Vaccine-Challenge-Show-186
Duration of Immunity to Canine Vaccines: What We Know and Don't Know, Dr. Ronald Schultz http://www.cedarbayvet.com/duration_of_immunity.htm
What Everyone Needs to Know about Canine Vaccines, Dr. Ronald Schultz
http://www.puliclub.org/CHF/AKC2007Conf/What%20Everyone%20Needs%20to%20Know%20About%20Canine%20Vaccines.htmVaccination: An Overview Dr. Melissa Kennedy, DVM360 http://veterinarycalendar.dvm360.com/avhc/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=568351
World Small Animal Veterinary Association 2007 Vaccine Guidelines http://www.wsava.org/SAC.htm Scroll down to Vaccine Guidelines 2007 (PDF)
The 2003 American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines are accessible online at http://www.leerburg.com/special_report.htm .
The 2006 American Animal Hospital Association's Canine Vaccine Guidelines are downloadable in PDF format at http://www.aahanet.org/PublicDocumen…s06Revised.pdf .
Veterinarian, Dr. Robert Rogers,has an excellent presentation on veterinary vaccines at http://www.newvaccinationprotocols.com/
October 1, 2002 DVM Newsletter article entitled, AVMA, AAHA to Release Vaccine Positions, http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=35171
July 1, 2003 DVM Newsletter article entitled, What Do We Tell Our Clients?, Developing thorough plan to educate staff on changing vaccine protocols essential for maintaining solid relationships with clients and ensuring quality care http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=61696
July 1, 2003, DVM Newsletter article, Developing Common Sense Strategies for Fiscal Responsibility: Using an interactive template to plan service protocol changes http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=61694
Animal Wellness Magazine Article Vol. 8 Issue 6, How Often Does he REALLY Need A Rabies Shot Animal Wellness Magazine - devoted to natural health in animals
The Rabies Challenge Animal Wise Radio Interview
Listen to Animal Wise (scroll down to The Rabies Challenge 12/9/07)The Vaccine Challenge Animal Talk Naturally Online Radio Show ? The Vaccine Challenge - Show #91
Rabies Shot Killed my Poodle May 28, 2008 Channel 5 News WCVB http://www.thebostonchannel.com:80/news/16410586/detail.html?rss=bos&taf=bos
US Declared Canine-Rabies Free – CDC Announces at Inaugural World Rabies Day Symposium CDC Press Release - September 7, 2007
Rabies Prevention – United States, 1991 Recommendations of the Immunization Practices Advisory Committee (ACIP), Center for Disease Control's Morbidity and Mortality Weekly March 22, 1991 / 40(RR03);1-19 http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00041987.htm "A fully vaccinated dog or cat is unlikely to become infected with rabies, although rare cases have been reported (48). In a nationwide study of rabies among dogs and cats in 1988, only one dog and two cats that were vaccinated contracted rabies (49). All three of these animals had received only single doses of vaccine; no documented vaccine failures occurred among dogs or cats that had received two vaccinations. "
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If you have a decent vet, you may be able to get a note from them stating they do not need shots and this may be enough for tags. Zina will never have another needle as long as she lives-on Vet's recommendations. Her immune system is shot and she cannot handle even heartworm meds. No one, not even the customs agents have ever bothered me about rabies or needles because of the vet note. I carry it with me and get it updated when I am taking her in the car or over the border. I would call and anonymously ask the humane where you live about it. But, I would also talk to a supervisor, sometimes the front desk people don't deal with exceptions very well. Some of them are very focused on the written word in their by-laws.
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I do titers testing after the initial vaccs. The last two times my dogs went in for the tests they did not have to get distemper or parvo shots. There's a thread on here somewhere that talks about titers testing.
Kebasmom,
Here's a link to a titers thread http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=3073&highlight=titers
Kris
