eeefarm…Oh my...that was great! Interestingly, we get a lots dogs out of Europe for work because the American stock can often times be so bad. There is a saying in the industry that the good Euro dogs stay in Europe because the Americans will buy anything. From my own stand point, the breeders that we do work closely with never get rid of their best dogs and are extremely selective to where even the lessor ones might go. I wonder if we have had a few fast ones pulled on us in the past!? lol...
I don't know how it is in America, but in Norway it's forbidden to chase and kill animals with other animals. They can chase and tell, but not kill. And honestly, it's ok. We also have a pretty strick BSL around here, and it wouldn't be good to have those traits in a country like Norway. My basenji can chase if he's allowed to even though I haven't TRAINED him for that. But he can also hug a cat he sees near the road. And I don't think it would be much appreciated from my side if he chased down an elk/moose in the woods either. I do believe most basenjis have their hunting instincts intact, but in todays society, they don't really need it.
Here in Europe most basenjis are companion- and show dogs, and I believe most of the basenjis around here acts like that as well. If you really want a hardcore hunting dog, look for a patterdale terrier, perhaps.
But I do believe some dogs are easier to train than others, as individuals. My last Golden Retriever came from pure show lines, but he never did any good in shows (easier built than many others), but he worked pretty well in the woods for hunting up dummies, as he were in a good physical shape, than many other goldens around here in Scandinavia.
And GeorgiaK9 - good words!
OK all all OFA tests were done on Kaden and his thyroid was normal. Orthopedic test results will take a bit. CERf tomorrow for both.
In the meantime, I have to get a whelping box ready and wanted to get some advice from any willing to give it. Thank you in advance!
This has become a complicated thread with so many different issues involved. I don't think it appropriate for it to continue under 'Basenjis for Sale or Wanted. Would it be possible to move the individual themes to more appropriate sections?
It's probably due to age but I'm finding it difficult to follow and respond to the different subjects mentioned here!!!!
But they are being bred to lure course as well as conformation. Like someone said it may only be at the end of the day a plastic bag on a string but it also shows off the agility and form of the dog. If they can't perform during a lure course then I would think that they would perform poorly in a conformation ring as well. It would mean that they do not have the stamina in the field as well as the agility of the breed to make the quick turns and follow prey. Sure some may be better hunters than others but do we want as a breed to selectively breed for this which in the end may result in a purebred basenji that does not have the 'type' of a conformation basenji. How far do we want to go to 'create a line' of hunting B's and differentiate from type and what will this hunting line be like for temperment? I would think that we would be breeding for a certain type of mindset in these basenji's. Very independant, smart and possibly revert back to agressiveness, which from what I have heard has come a long way in this breed.
I'm pretty new in the Basenji world, but I don't think lure-coursing has much to do with keeping the hunting traits in the Basenji's. For as far as I know, Basenji's where mostly used for hunting cane rats and things like that. Quarry that isn't really fast and pretty easy to catch for a smaller dog with good sight, smell and agility. With those, it was more important to be able to move quickly through dence vegetation, then to chase game in the open fields. And when chasing larger, faster moving game, it was most likely in fields with grass so high, that a basenji would soon loose sight contact, so they had to rely on scent to track and follow the game.
What concerns driving game into nets, I haven't read or heard anything about that yet, other then it being mentioned in some breed discriptions. I can imagine that from time to time, while chasing an antilope, they would make it run towards the hunters, but I don't think they would be trained to do that. Guess it would be just a lucky coincidence if it happened.
So lure coursing is a fun game for them, but has nothing to do with the way they are used for hunting in Africa. So I wouldn't dare to say that a dog who is good at lure coursing, would show that they still have good hunting skills.
From what I hear from people who are in Africa, the native basenji's over there are much more friendly, social and less independant then the modern basenji we have over here. If a dog is agressive over there, they will chase it away or kill it. They won't risk having an agressive dog around when there children are playing next to those. So the dogs need to be friendly, or they will soon loose all the benefits of being permitted to stay close to people.
Voodoo, with all due respect I suggest you continue your research. I have been a student of the breed since 1992 and everything I have ever read, seen in picture or watched in video shows the basenji as primarily a dog that drives medium to largish game into the hunters nets. Which would explain the nets the hunters are aleays carrying snd the bells the dogs are fitted with so the hunters can follow their progress.
I am sure when they are not belled they do hunt smaller game for their own survival but i do not beleive that was their primary hunting purpose.
The history of basenjis on the BCOA website is a good place to start. And their are a number of websites which have a lot of basenji history interspersed as well.
Page 255 of The African Giant copyright 1955 had this to say about the hunting dogs he calls basenjis which he was shown "When hunting they wear wooden bells tied round their loins so that they can be followed, since they can not bark. They do not lift their legs to urinate. When hunting big game, I was told their masters prime them with palm wine, but even without it they are most courageous and will attack gorilla or even elephant and lion or bush cow."
Phoenix started to have pups late last night and everything went off without a hitch. *She took a rest between each little one and was done around 11PM EST. *Kelli took care of this on her own as I was in Sacramento working with our DoD contract dog at Mather air base. *Phoenix was a trooper and is taking care of her pups like she has done it a hundred times before. *
The first pup born was a little black and white who was quite noisy, cussing up a storm every time he did not get what he wanted. *This one apparently did not fall far from the Kaden tree! Phoenix had five pups altogether with the first three being black and whites and the last two dark brindle. *
I will try to keep updates on this litter flowing as we have really high hopes for this litter. I kind of fell of the face of the basenji world for a time due to a battle with cancer and then having to get my life and business back on track. I let our basenji native traits preservation project BNTPP yahoo froum kind of flounder because I just could not do it…I apologize to all of you who joined only to see it slow down to a crawl. I am working our B's again and this litter will add even more intersting things to the mix. I will post here with updates and keep a good photographic and written journal of the litter progress on BNTPP. Final testing for working pups will be done around 7 weeks of age depending on maturity. B's seem to mature as fast if not faster than other breeds we work with so my guess is 7 weeks will be good.
So, if you are interested in working and hunting basenji dialogue and pics, come on over to BNTPP for lots of details. This forum was designed to be open to anyone interested in basenji native traits. It is also a great place to post your pictures and stories about what field work you do with your basenjis. It is not just hunting, anything where the basenji gets to use its natural abilities to do something.
Thank you…I have nowhere near the B litter experience that you have but of the litters I have seen, basenjis appear to me to mature far faster than than the large breeds we commonly test for work. We test all of our working stock at 7-9 weeks old for suitability traits for work. The tests take about 15 minutes per pup and there are about 15 points that we are looking for depending upon the job they may do. Maturity is a relative thing and is subjective to the individual testing; however, there is a time with puppies that their instinctual responses are free from learned behavior to a certain extent and once we get over seven weeks, we start to trend more towards learned vs. instinctual. Almost all of our Shepherds test well at seven weeks and we have never made a mistake on selection, knock on wood. The bloodhounds seem to be best around 8-9 weeks, no mistakes there yet either. With the basenjis, I actually feel that they are far more aware and adaptive at earlier ages than just about any breed we have ever tested. I remarked on this before in the BNTPP pages, hypothesizing that this may actaully be due to a genetic requirement to mature a little faster relative to the living situation the basenjis originally come from. It will be interesting to see how this litter works out...I will be watching this one more than any other in the past primarily due to all of the experience I have gained since Phoenix was born. I will Youtube the testing so folks can watch. From a precedent standpoint, I beleive Coppinger wrote on the subject of brain development at various ages and I may be wrong here, but I think he mentioned something about seven weeks being a good age to test.
Thanks, Heidi and I have a Flicker link to all of our pups pics as we post them:
Take a look when you can and let me know your thoughts.