Pups :-)

[khanis]

These pups have gorgeous short sleek coats.
They were imported from Benin in the winter of 2009.
They were a year old in the winter of 2010.
They were about 4 months old in these pictures.

This was their FIRST time on actual leads and collars…. and with a stranger stacking them.

While they have a lot of white, they are also lightly built, SQUARE (a characteristic very few Africans possess), and very typical of the breed.

[sharronhurlbut]

These puppies aren't your are they?

[tanza]

How about current pictures? Is RMH trying to sell these or is this a campaign for inclusion in the stud books? If they are going to be put up, would love to see current pictures. I believe that one is Isis and the other is Athena and they would be over 2yrs now? Wasn't it Isis that had the opps litter in May of 2010?

[DebraDownSouth]

Kathy, I posted something I really should have just sent to you on the new test thread..

http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?p=141791#post141791

Can you respond because I am either confused or your web page not factual.

The pups look striking. I'd like to see updated pics too.

Pat who was the oops litter with?

[tlish]

awww…. that tri has such a cute face!!

[YodelDogs]

I haven't seen any stacked photos of any of Rose Marie's Avuvis as adults.

[tanza]

Don't know who the "opps" was with, as I understood it, could have been one of a number of males. Don't know if DNA was ever done to determine the sire (or sires)

[Quercus]

Pretty heads on the reds…but it would be great if some current photos could be circulated.

[Shaye's Mom]

Love those pictures. I think a lot of white makes for a very striking appearance and should be a good thing.

[Quercus]

@Shaye's:

Love those pictures. I think a lot of white makes for a very striking appearance and should be a good thing.

It is clearly stated in the Basenji Standard, which is the official description of what a Basenji is, where the white should be, and that the the white should not predominate the color. So, although some people may like the the look of it (and that is FINE) it *is a fault according to our standard. But it is ONLY a fault…not a disqualification, nor an indication that the dog is not a purebred.

[khanis]

I am sure we will get photos this weekend at the African exhibition.

I do find entertaining that folks like to dwell on the oops factor on Marie's dogs. Why not do that for mine?
OOPs do happen.
All three of mine were due to the Ex and his lack of using brain cells… when I crate dogs and have them in separate rooms, that does not mean to put them in the back yard together because they sounded like they wanted out...
REALLY?? You never take care of them until the day they are in season?? DUH.

Marie's oops was the same situation.
She was at work, and Mike put them together.
It happens. She was luckier than me, and hers weren't both carriers or carrier/affected [of course when this happened, we didn't have the test].

Marie takes excellent care of her dogs. And given the wrench she's been thrown here and there, she is doing all that she can when time and money make it allowable.

These pups were straight from Benin…
quite striking IMO.

[JoT]

Out of curiosity, Kathy what was your motive for this thread titled "Pups" but actually about adult animals (one of which has already whelped at least one litter and her pups are themselves over a year old), dated today July 2011, and illustrated with photos that were taken 2.5 years ago.
Were you trying to fool people or is this a test?

[khanis]

Jo,

These photos ARE of puppies… at least according to MY opinion a dog under a year old is a puppy.
Hence, PUPS.

[tanza]

But what was the purpose of the post? You had already posted these pictures in a post from 2009? Like Jo, I can't understand what was the point? People would be interested in see the pictures of them as adults, not the same pictures as 2009. Seems like you are campaigning for these dogs?

[sharronhurlbut]

Kathy, have there been any fanconi testing done? How about DNA if the sire isn't know.
Or did these pups come right from Africa? Guess I am not understanding much of this.

[sinbaje]

Over and over there seems to be a reoccurring question by you Sharron, in addition to the reoccurring implications made by you and several others re: personal issues with the Benin imports, being asked of Marie, who I believe no longer reads this forum or if she does, it is very infrequent due to the excessive bullying she was enduring.

With all due respect answer me this:

1. if folks truly believe the Benin imports are not basenjis, why the continued questioning regarding whether or not they are tested for fanconi syndrome - a disease of the basenji dog? If they are not basenjis, as some would have us believe, who cares if they get tested? And if we should not care, because they are not basenjis anyway, why do we continue to hammer it home on a public forum that she might not be up to date on her testing? Thereby implying she is a bad breeder.

2. why are you not asking similarly hard and public questions of other breeders who have bred their dogs (100% out of Africa imports, domestic and/or blends) but did not or worse, continue to not have test results (at least not public ones therefore one can only assume a) they were not done or b) the results were not favorable) of health issues such as hips, eyes, thyroids? Why are they not continually asked where their test results are? Why did they breed their untested or not fully tested dogs?

Where are their tsks, tsks? Or are those only reserved for people who are not actively participating in these venues or less respected and therefore less apt to matter if we hurt their feelings or continue to cut them down?

[DebraDownSouth]

I am still on my first cup of coffee, but WTH folks? She stated those were the puppy pics, I enjoyed seeing them for sure. She's getting ready for the Africa exhibition, has the dogs on her mind, shared. Holy cow, talk about unnecessary accusations and insinuations of nefarious motivations (isn't that a fitting melodramatics string of words to fit this?)!

@khanis:

I do find entertaining that folks like to dwell on the oops factor on Marie's dogs.

I was curious, not dwelling. And anyone who doesn't appreciate that opps things happens doesn't have a lot of life experience. Really, got to say when someone has an oops and owns up, move on. Unlike a famous Rottie breeder who came into her kennel with company to find her bitch tied with a really "unworthy" dog. She then, supposedly, bred it with the intended dog and registered the litter as his (long before DNA). Only 2 stand up breeders filing a complaint with AKC got the litter registration pulled. I guess she hoped they wouldn't complain or even notice.

@sinbaje:

why are you not asking similarly hard and public questions of other breeders who have bred their dogs (100% out of Africa imports, domestic and/or blends) but did not or worse, continue to not have test results (at least not public ones therefore one can only assume a) they were not done or b) the results were not favorable) of health issues such as hips, eyes, thyroids? Why are they not continually asked where their test results are? Why did they breed their untested or not fully tested dogs?

If there are breeders who post here who do this, then shame on any of you knowing and not speaking up.

Frankly, Marie got sharp responses from ME because her posts were insane and abusive. I would have been happy to learn about her dogs and views, but not the whackjob comments. She came here to post hawking puppies as Basenjis, then tried to side step saying ohhhh well not registered but anyone INQUIRING would get the full info. It was certainly a "get out your hipboots boys, it's getting deep in here" time. Perhaps she was burned before, but I can only respond to what I see. But it is a shame she can't come here, openly discuss her dogs, her goals and share. I personally would welcome that. Perhaps she can start a facebook where she can monitor nasty responses and ban, while allowing us to learn about her program. I certainly would join!

Back to the oops though.. do you really think it is unusual or some "bash conspiracy" to wonder if they did DNA? I mean, if I had that dog and had an oops, I'd want to know the stud so I could really evaluate what was produced. Only knowing the sire would help her get a grasp on what each parent probably contributed.

And on stupid husbands… please. My DH had lived with dogs and me for over 12 yrs when I came home to find my JUST in heat (so probably not the end of the world) bitch out in the yard with HER SON. My husband said he was watching the fence line and made sure no dogs came around. I said "CONNER WAS OUT THERE!!" He said (I swear you can't make this up) "He's her son, he wouldn't do anything." No, he isn't buried in the back yard, but I considered it. Anyway, her daughter had puppies 5 wks before. I called my co-breeder, asked if she was sure we had a next generation... took her in and spayed Dax. I now regret not holding out for a 3rd litter, but such is life.

[sharronhurlbut]

Linda.

1. I believe anyone who breeds any dog they call a basenji should be health tested first. I am surprised that this isn't something everyone supports.
2. I don't know who your speaking of, so can't answer.

IMO, if you can't do all the testing FIRST before your putting puppies on the ground, that shows a lack of responsibility.

[DebraDownSouth]

Sharron, equally important, it doesn't matter. Because others do irresponsible doesn't make someone else okay. If you can't afford to do the testing, don't breed. End of subject.

[tanza]

@sinbaje:

1. 2. why are you not asking similarly hard and public questions of other breeders who have bred their dogs (100% out of Africa imports, domestic and/or blends) but did not or worse, continue to not have test results (at least not public ones therefore one can only assume a) they were not done or b) the results were not favorable) of health issues such as hips, eyes, thyroids? Why are they not continually asked where their test results are? Why did they breed their untested or not fully tested dogs?

Where are their tsks, tsks? Or are those only reserved for people who are not actively participating in these venues or less respected and therefore less apt to matter if we hurt their feelings or continue to cut them down?

2. Who said that questions are not being asked of any breeder, Af imports or Domestic. Are any of those breeders on this forum? Have you not seen questions to breeders here about testing? Or to buyers about the testing from their breeder? I think that many on here have and do ask other breeders about their testing and that many of the breeders post links or test results for planned litters.

And remember the reason that RMH is not participating on this forum is because of her behavior leading to her removal as a member. It was Kathy that brought up the subject these imports and we all responded with questions about the reason of this post. Was it campaigning because these imports will be put up for inclusion to the stud books or is she trying to sell these dogs?