I sincerely hope we can go back to debating issues, not people. That is where learning and exchanging ideas actually occur.
Cat question - our 16 year old girl is 'up' for her shots. She is now an indoor cat and I can't see her exposed to any harmful things. In the past, taking her to the vet (8 minute ride there) and getting the shots has been rotten for her - MAJOR stress and being ill (throwing up). So, would you still vaccinate if she was your cat?
Another related question (or more accurately..questions). Does anybody here run titers regularly…do you do it annually...how much more expensive is it than vaccines? Have you been able to convince your boarding facility to accept them in place of vaccine records?
Fran, the AAHA has guidelines on felines, but most of my cat friends get rabies because of the law and nothing else… taking them in for first appt of day to avoid issues, in their own carriers etc.
Here is the cat one from American Association of Feline Practitioners: http://www.catvets.com/uploads/HTML/VaccineSummary.html
Andrea, when I first began NOT doing yearly, I paid more each year for titers than I would have for shots. But as the evidence grew, I generally do them once after 3 yrs. Every one, even with autoimmune problem Sayblee, showed no need to revaccinate, but I still did the 3 yr just in case. Now, with Cara, I just had her 1 yr done and will most likely do a titre in 2 or 3 yrs. Unless it isn't good, that will be it for her, just vaccines every 3 yrs. Initially I had other vets who really guilted me about not doing yearly shots and how the LEAST I could do was titers.
On boarding, my own vet requires ONLY rabies and kennel cough so it has never been a problem. I keep hearing about people having vets claim they have to do the others, but call around. Of course, I have to admit that I have only boarded a few times in the last 15 yrs as I generally use a pet sitter.
Quercus.
I only do titers on my b's now. Have done for years. It is more expensive, at least in my area, than the shots. But I am willing to take that expense so my b's don't take a shot they don't need. FYI, I only do the titers every 3 yrs or so, just when the rabies is due.
I have not had any need to give shots since I have started titering thei blood.
Fran, I woudn't give my senior cat any more shots.
I titer my dogs 3 years after their initial shots and then yearly thereafter. If I'm bringing a puppy into the house, I usually get them re-vaccinated just to be on the safe side if it's after the 3 year period.
Titers are more expensive here than the shots but I feel it's better than over-vaccinating. We lost our first vizsla to cancer at 6 years old and while she was getting chemo, one of the oncologists mentioned that they thought over vaccinating could be a cause in the uprise in cancer cases, especially in younger dogs. It was after that I started titering.
I don't know about cats, but my eldest dog is soon to be 11 and aside from his rabies shots, I won't be having him vaccinated anymore.
Fran, I woudn't give my senior cat any more shots.
Thanks Sharron, for your input. We don't have a cat rabies law here, so I think I am going to go with my gut and let her enjoy her remaining life without added stress, and of course, something she might not need in her body.
Cat question - our 16 year old girl is 'up' for her shots. She is now an indoor cat and I can't see her exposed to any harmful things. In the past, taking her to the vet (8 minute ride there) and getting the shots has been rotten for her - MAJOR stress and being ill (throwing up). So, would you still vaccinate if she was your cat?
Personally, if that were my cat, I would not give her any vaccines other than rabies, which is required by law. If she has any sort of health condition, she should not be given the rabies either (have your vet write a waiver) as the vaccine labels specify that they are for "healthy" dogs & cats.
Another related question (or more accurately..questions). Does anybody here run titers regularly…do you do it annually...how much more expensive is it than vaccines? Have you been able to convince your boarding facility to accept them in place of vaccine records?
Both of the boarding facilities we used took titers, although after I bombarded them with enough canine vaccine data to sink a small ship, they stopped asking me for proof of anything. It really does pay to educate the kennel owners and groomers, most of them are not up to speed on the proven minimum duration of immunity of these vaccines.
Permission given to cross-post and share the links to the interview
I agree Fran, I don't vaccinate Abu my 18yr old cat anymore. I did rabbies until a few years ago but then have a waiver from my vet.
I also have found over the years if I advise people who have my dogs to provide all the vaccine data they can in writing to vets, puppy classes, grooming shops and boarding facilities they do stop asking for as much, and if a place is insistant I also encourage owners to search the internet for recent law suits regarding over vaccination and that usually stops them asking me for anything. Just to show them there is always someone who will hold them responsible for illness from either side so why not side with "not" over vaccinating.
Therese
I have had the good fortune of having a Vet agree with me about annuals. WE both agreed that for the area that I live, Rabies (of course), Leptosporosis and Bordatella is recommended outside of the full 'coctail' or mixture of vaccines for my older 8 and 10 year olds. (usually any dog over the age of 2 years should have immunity to the spectrum of DHPP-the ****tail without Lepto) I have yet to renew my new Basenji of 18mos and have an appointment next week, I want to discuss the possibility of only getting his 3yr Rabies, Lepto and Bord from now on. I do know from reading many articles that Rabies should be given separately as well for health reasons (not mixing is actually better so as to be aware of any reactions). The clinic and Vet are happy if you give your fur child at least an annual checkup since you may opt out of annual vaccines- So just discuss it with your Vet. Most everyone on this forum seems to be mostly informed. There is a lot of information out there right now about the vaccines, immunity and titers. PS: the forum did not like the word coctail with a k)….
I have not given Bordatella for many, many years. I am curious why that is recommended by your Vet? (unless you board your fur kids or do doggy day care, which usually require it). I have been told that it really only lasts for a few months and there are so many different strains of Bordetella, it is hit and miss if the fur kid is really even covered.
And I have seen and heard of many with reactions to Lepto, I will not and always advise my puppy owners to opt out from Lepto. Is it a problem in your area?
Pat, one of my vets was telling me last year that they are seeing more and more cases of Lepto, and the vaccines for it are better than they were years ago. He knows I never give Lepto, and he understands and agrees with me..but he says the new Lepto vaccines have better coverage, and are much less likely to cause a reaction than before. But I still haven't given it….
I don't give Lepto and we live in the woods with many critters.
I have not given Bordatella for many, many years. I am curious why that is recommended by your Vet? (unless you board your fur kids or do doggy day care, which usually require it). I have been told that it really only lasts for a few months and there are so many different strains of Bordetella, it is hit and miss if the fur kid is really even covered.
And I have seen and heard of many with reactions to Lepto, I will not and always advise my puppy owners to opt out from Lepto. Is it a problem in your area?
Yes Tanza, my Vet recommended that the critters that cross over the 10 acres I live on can very well pass it on. So, yes the area in Central Fl just west of Ocala is a problem for Lepto. Also, Bordatella is administered every 6mos. I do some boarding, but did you know that Bordatella can be transmitted by bird droppings? The USF website is very detailed about the disease, sorry I could not download it here….
We are hearing more and more lepto here, it is spreading.
I give bordatella only because of rescues. But I do have to say about 13 yrs ago I had ONLY vaccinated Dax recently (due to shows). The rest were a good year or close to it. I brought home the chow/coyotee with kennel cough. OMG, it ran through my house like wildfire. All had it severely, except Dax who did get it but was over it fast. So strands or not, I do really believe it helps. And since it is a pretty mild vaccine, I don't mind.
Longevity for the shot is about a year, the inhaled about 6 mos I think?
I don't currently vaccinate for Lepto, although I had heard like Andrea its on the rise in our area see link from Seattle PI below.
http://www.seattledogspot.com/2011/01/20/leptospirosis-in-pets-on-the-rise-in-western-washington/
I have been concerned about using the vaccine because it is a killed vaccine which I concerns with due to studies done over many years. Also AAHA really isn't able to recommend it based on research available. It is also very important to not vaccinate puppies under 12 weeks with Lepto which some people do when they use combo shots with their puppies, one more reason I am not a fan of combo shots. See link of AAHA Lepto recommendations below.
http://secure.aahanet.org/eweb/dynamicpage.aspx?site=resources&webcode=CanineVaccineGuidelines
Personally I have a spirochete due to having Lyme's (or as Kevin calls it Leimback-teria) as well as Babesia. I can tell you first hand although treatment seems simple killing a spirochete bacteria is not an easy treatment, it triggers a Herxheimer reaction that can be for some extremely painful. But I am under the impression no new Live mediated vaccine with better coverage is yet available. See article below to explain.
http://spirochetesunwound.blogspot.com/2011/05/new-attenuated-leptospirosis-vaccine.html
Andrea, if you or your vet are aware of a better vaccine on the market I would love to have some info to take to my vet. Thanks in advance if you have any more current info on this vaccine, I know my vet would love to have it as well.
Therese
@Therese:
I don't currently vaccinate for Lepto, although I had heard like Andrea its on the rise in our area see link from Seattle PI below.
http://www.seattledogspot.com/2011/01/20/leptospirosis-in-pets-on-the-rise-in-western-washington/I have been concerned about using the vaccine because it is a killed vaccine which I concerns with due to studies done over many years. Also AAHA really isn't able to recommend it based on research available. It is also very important to not vaccinate puppies under 12 weeks with Lepto which some people do when they use combo shots with their puppies, one more reason I am not a fan of combo shots. See link of AAHA Lepto recommendations below.
http://secure.aahanet.org/eweb/dynamicpage.aspx?site=resources&webcode=CanineVaccineGuidelines
Personally I have a spirochete due to having Lyme's (or as Kevin calls it Leimback-teria) as well as Babesia. I can tell you first hand although treatment seems simple killing a spirochete bacteria is not an easy treatment, it triggers a Herxheimer reaction that can be for some extremely painful. But I am under the impression no new Live mediated vaccine with better coverage is yet available. See article below to explain.
http://spirochetesunwound.blogspot.com/2011/05/new-attenuated-leptospirosis-vaccine.htmlAndrea, if you or your vet are aware of a better vaccine on the market I would love to have some info to take to my vet. Thanks in advance if you have any more current info on this vaccine, I know my vet would love to have it as well.
Therese
I will ask him about it at our annual visit. The details are kind of foggy, I guess because in my mind, I was already thinking 'no, not gonna vaccinate for lepto' But I will see if I can get some more info. He is quite progressive about new ideas, and I am happy to say that all of the vets that I use (three different clinics for different things) have gone to 3y dhpp, and three year rabies. But I will seriously consider going to titers at this point.
I still vaccinate all my dogs but no Lepto or Lyme. I do separate the vaccines though. I have the rabies separated from the DHPP by about a month or so. I have rescues coming in though less than I used to. My last two were from shelters. After I rescued the elderly B who had not had seen a vet in years, she received vaccines at that time but did not receive any after that. I also wait between vaccinations, deworming, and spay/neutering.
Jennifer
