(I do yearly lab work on all my kids)
Linda, what type of yearly lab work do you have done?
Debra,
If you read my comment as cruel it was not intended to be and I'm clarifying that. Linda did not give clear detail but I stand by the fact that I am the cause of my Ali's red blood cell aplasia in the sense I allowed the vet to restart her vaccine protocol because he was not comfortable relying on the breeders vaccine records. I should have stood my ground and used caution. Linda S stated in her posts that she is educated in vaccine reactions and takes the time to do blood work annually, although I put no blame on Linda for vaccinating her dog anymore than I do Jo for using annual vaccines on her dog that is now facing an issue I do think questioning these types of decisions in hind sight can only prove to help the dogs in the future.
So to clarify, I do not believe Sage would have been saved by not waiting for labs, just that it may have helped or rather the vaccine given in this case as in others may have "hurt". Just wanted to clarify as I would never intentionally be cruel about someone losing their dog. It breaks my heart we don't get a second chance on dogs like Sage or my girl Ali to do things differently but we certainly can help dogs in the future with what we learned in the past and that was my point.
Therese
Debra…do me a favor...and DON'T speak on my behalf or pretend for one minute that you know my intent - you DON'T. I'm quite capable of responding. If you took my comment as a snark, so be it. Quite frankly I DID take Pat's post as saying to put the article in TMB instead of the Bulletin and since I am a member of the BCOA, I wanted to know why. Pat has since clarified what she meant, I've since clarified why I took it the way I did - two folks involved in the conversation - explaining their side, problem solved. And your involvement has helped that how?
You post on public board, you get public response. You post a snark, inferring her comment was some nefarious slight to BCOA when it was simply addressing "free" means to publishing info, when it was not necessary to bring personal issues into it, when it really would have opened the article up to many who may not be part of BCOA (I'd have to see membership/subscriber numbers to know), was, IMHO, a snark. If you don't want public response, if you want private conversations, I do trust you know how to use email, no?
Helped? At least it let her know at least one person didn't think she owed anyone an apology for someone putting their own agenda/spin on her response.
You post on public board, you get public response. You post a snark, inferring her comment was some nefarious slight to BCOA when it was simply addressing "free" means to publishing info, when it was not necessary to bring personal issues into it, when it really would have opened the article up to many who may not be part of BCOA (I'd have to see membership/subscriber numbers to know), was, IMHO, a snark. If you don't want public response, if you want private conversations, I do trust you know how to use email, no? In fact, much of your personal (the real word is attack but let's diffuse and call them "comments") comments to Linda, like the below, would surely have been better as a PRIVATE conversation. I have no issues with strong opinions about THINGS, but when the focus is a personal nature, it doesn't belong on a forum. And when you do, don't cry at responses.
Helped? At least it let her know at least one person didn't think she owed anyone an apology for someone putting their own agenda/spin on her response.
Can you read? Did you see the part that was highlighted in my response to Pat - after her apology. So you don't think that the one word "too" clarified what she meant? It did to me. Clear enough? Post a few more paragraphs…Again you have NO IDEA about my intent. I've explained (to Pat - I owe you no explanation), if you can't understand it, well no amount of explanation will get it across to you. I'm done.
OK, lets go back to our regularly scheduled programing!
Debra, Linda and all in this thread. I would like to stop the bickering, back and forth, she said, she meant stuff. To me the important part of this thread is the post with the links.
I won't try to clarify further or defend anything further that I personally posted, people may not read things the way I intended or I may not have written things the way I wanted them read but enough is enough for me. I am comfortable with what I wrote and am willing to take any lumps that come for it on a public forum.
I again thank Kris for posting the link and this weekend will post it to my website in a new page.
I love that people are so passionate about their dogs, any breed of dog and look forward to many more passionate discussions in years to come as we all work to improve their lives in any way we can.
Therese
I sincerely hope we can go back to debating issues, not people. That is where learning and exchanging ideas actually occur.
Cat question - our 16 year old girl is 'up' for her shots. She is now an indoor cat and I can't see her exposed to any harmful things. In the past, taking her to the vet (8 minute ride there) and getting the shots has been rotten for her - MAJOR stress and being ill (throwing up). So, would you still vaccinate if she was your cat?
Another related question (or more accurately..questions). Does anybody here run titers regularly…do you do it annually...how much more expensive is it than vaccines? Have you been able to convince your boarding facility to accept them in place of vaccine records?
Fran, the AAHA has guidelines on felines, but most of my cat friends get rabies because of the law and nothing else… taking them in for first appt of day to avoid issues, in their own carriers etc.
Here is the cat one from American Association of Feline Practitioners: http://www.catvets.com/uploads/HTML/VaccineSummary.html
Andrea, when I first began NOT doing yearly, I paid more each year for titers than I would have for shots. But as the evidence grew, I generally do them once after 3 yrs. Every one, even with autoimmune problem Sayblee, showed no need to revaccinate, but I still did the 3 yr just in case. Now, with Cara, I just had her 1 yr done and will most likely do a titre in 2 or 3 yrs. Unless it isn't good, that will be it for her, just vaccines every 3 yrs. Initially I had other vets who really guilted me about not doing yearly shots and how the LEAST I could do was titers.
On boarding, my own vet requires ONLY rabies and kennel cough so it has never been a problem. I keep hearing about people having vets claim they have to do the others, but call around. Of course, I have to admit that I have only boarded a few times in the last 15 yrs as I generally use a pet sitter.
Quercus.
I only do titers on my b's now. Have done for years. It is more expensive, at least in my area, than the shots. But I am willing to take that expense so my b's don't take a shot they don't need. FYI, I only do the titers every 3 yrs or so, just when the rabies is due.
I have not had any need to give shots since I have started titering thei blood.
Fran, I woudn't give my senior cat any more shots.
I titer my dogs 3 years after their initial shots and then yearly thereafter. If I'm bringing a puppy into the house, I usually get them re-vaccinated just to be on the safe side if it's after the 3 year period.
Titers are more expensive here than the shots but I feel it's better than over-vaccinating. We lost our first vizsla to cancer at 6 years old and while she was getting chemo, one of the oncologists mentioned that they thought over vaccinating could be a cause in the uprise in cancer cases, especially in younger dogs. It was after that I started titering.
I don't know about cats, but my eldest dog is soon to be 11 and aside from his rabies shots, I won't be having him vaccinated anymore.
Fran, I woudn't give my senior cat any more shots.
Thanks Sharron, for your input. We don't have a cat rabies law here, so I think I am going to go with my gut and let her enjoy her remaining life without added stress, and of course, something she might not need in her body.
Cat question - our 16 year old girl is 'up' for her shots. She is now an indoor cat and I can't see her exposed to any harmful things. In the past, taking her to the vet (8 minute ride there) and getting the shots has been rotten for her - MAJOR stress and being ill (throwing up). So, would you still vaccinate if she was your cat?
Personally, if that were my cat, I would not give her any vaccines other than rabies, which is required by law. If she has any sort of health condition, she should not be given the rabies either (have your vet write a waiver) as the vaccine labels specify that they are for "healthy" dogs & cats.
Another related question (or more accurately..questions). Does anybody here run titers regularly…do you do it annually...how much more expensive is it than vaccines? Have you been able to convince your boarding facility to accept them in place of vaccine records?
Both of the boarding facilities we used took titers, although after I bombarded them with enough canine vaccine data to sink a small ship, they stopped asking me for proof of anything. It really does pay to educate the kennel owners and groomers, most of them are not up to speed on the proven minimum duration of immunity of these vaccines.
Permission given to cross-post and share the links to the interview
I agree Fran, I don't vaccinate Abu my 18yr old cat anymore. I did rabbies until a few years ago but then have a waiver from my vet.
I also have found over the years if I advise people who have my dogs to provide all the vaccine data they can in writing to vets, puppy classes, grooming shops and boarding facilities they do stop asking for as much, and if a place is insistant I also encourage owners to search the internet for recent law suits regarding over vaccination and that usually stops them asking me for anything. Just to show them there is always someone who will hold them responsible for illness from either side so why not side with "not" over vaccinating.
Therese
I have had the good fortune of having a Vet agree with me about annuals. WE both agreed that for the area that I live, Rabies (of course), Leptosporosis and Bordatella is recommended outside of the full 'coctail' or mixture of vaccines for my older 8 and 10 year olds. (usually any dog over the age of 2 years should have immunity to the spectrum of DHPP-the ****tail without Lepto) I have yet to renew my new Basenji of 18mos and have an appointment next week, I want to discuss the possibility of only getting his 3yr Rabies, Lepto and Bord from now on. I do know from reading many articles that Rabies should be given separately as well for health reasons (not mixing is actually better so as to be aware of any reactions). The clinic and Vet are happy if you give your fur child at least an annual checkup since you may opt out of annual vaccines- So just discuss it with your Vet. Most everyone on this forum seems to be mostly informed. There is a lot of information out there right now about the vaccines, immunity and titers. PS: the forum did not like the word coctail with a k)….
I have not given Bordatella for many, many years. I am curious why that is recommended by your Vet? (unless you board your fur kids or do doggy day care, which usually require it). I have been told that it really only lasts for a few months and there are so many different strains of Bordetella, it is hit and miss if the fur kid is really even covered.
And I have seen and heard of many with reactions to Lepto, I will not and always advise my puppy owners to opt out from Lepto. Is it a problem in your area?
Pat, one of my vets was telling me last year that they are seeing more and more cases of Lepto, and the vaccines for it are better than they were years ago. He knows I never give Lepto, and he understands and agrees with me..but he says the new Lepto vaccines have better coverage, and are much less likely to cause a reaction than before. But I still haven't given it….
