Alone training

[-ClarEmmKai-]

I like your idea of keeping the heat up in his room, I think that'll help seeing as they do enjoy warmth. Trying the plastic crate may help, less opportunity to see outside of it! I admire the fact that you refuse to send him back to his breeder.. that wouldn't help him at all it seems.

Well, good luck! I hope your new strategies will help. If not, have you considered getting another one to keep him company?? And quite possibly tire each other out!?

[Patty]

It sounds to me that all this has become a habit but I know you can't turn back the clock to the first time you had him.

Having just read through the posts I feel fior you dreadfully.

Can you try completely altering your routines with him? - going back to square one as though you had just had him? It would of course take much longer but patience is always the key.

Take him for plenty of exercise and if possible don't leave him alone at all until you have very very gradually got him used to you being out of the room. Follow the advice you have already been given as to training him to get used to being left.

Do you go out to work? Can you get some time off if so? Can you not take him shopping with you? I know this will be a very long term thing because something has gone awry in the first place.

I do have a bitch who I have never been able to leave alone but I am lucky because as long as there is another with her she is ok. She won't even be crated on her own and won't tolerate being shut in her crate to eat. I have never had this problem before but it seems that it is in her genes because sevral of her decendants are the same.

I pray that this can be resolved as it sounds as though this has taken over your life!

[NerdyDogOwner]

Odd giving an update so quickly, but after I today started with my "heating" up his room and lowering the rest of the apartment, things have taken a surprising turn.

In addition to the heat, I also removed his blacket (which is situated next to me when at the computer) and a few pillows. This is because I have a wooden floor, and felt sorry for the guy not having a nice carpet. I even placed his crate in his room.

Anyways, now he is forced to go to his room if he wants to lay down on something better than a hard floor. This took 3 "lay downs" for him to figure out.

He would lay down on the floor (with a rather uncomfortable "clunk" sound) next to me. I then got up and went into his room, sat down next to his blanket and patted it while calling him over. He came over, and laid down with a sigh. Clearly more comfy than that floor!

So, like I mentioned, this happened 3 times. Now he has been going in and out of his room all the time. And spending time in there! Usually he just goes in to get a toy, or a drink. I have left the babygate open the whole time.
He even took a nap/sleep in there! WOW!

I am relived. I know this might be premature, but I feel this is a step in the right direction. A week with this, and I think I can start closing the babygate without protests.
To be on the safe side, I am going to use the crate if I have to leave or keep him restrained, and not his room. Just to remove his association of being alone in that room. I want that room to be a happy place, and it seems to be just that now.

EDIT: It's late here, and bed time. And he is sleeping in his room! I am going to see if he willingly sleeps there tonight. I am going to keep the babygate open, so he feels no pressure. Fingers crossed!

[renaultf1]

That sounds like a step in the right direction. It is always better when they make the decision to go in their crate and/or room on their own. That way they have a good association with it. I'll keep my fingers crossed that he starts accepting alone time better.

[NerdyDogOwner]

Heh, well last night was an adventure. He slept in his room…sort of. He came into my bedroom several times, but I just walked into his room and he followed and jumped into his bed/blanket. I went back to my bed, he came back in to me.

This happened up to 8 times. Eventually he didn't come back. But when I woke up this morning, I found him on the sofa...hmmmmmm. Not sure if he slept there all night or not! Sneaky little guy!

[Patty]

Hooray - it sounds as though you're making progress. That was a brainwave to make his own room more comfortable and warm than the others.

You've obviously being patient which I think, is the key. If you panic or get desperate he will sense it too.

I'm praying that all will be well soon and we'll have more progress reports.

[NerdyDogOwner]

Well I got the DAP electric diffuser thing yesterday, and have had it plugged-in in his room. Also his blanket is close to it.

It actually seems to be working. When I closed the babygate all he did was look at me for some time, but never really cried. Just a little whimper here and there. Eventually he started to play with some toys, and just lie down on his blanket.

So today I was looking forward to how he was when I leave the apartment to do some shopping, while in his room. I placed my video camera in his room, and closed the main door.
Now usually he would howl and cry nonstop. I know because I have filmed him. Also he has sore throat problems because of this.

Well, he did howl, but only for some short bursts maybe for 2-3 minutes. Other than that he just whimpered a little and sat there. Even lied down for a bit!

He did try to climb up to the window ledge, I guess he thinks it's a way out. And try to claw at the door handle….luckily the door swings inward, so I don't think he can get the door open even if he does managed to use it.

The main problem I have is coming home when he is not whimpering and howling. Sometimes I can hear him out the door. But watching the video today I saw it was a bad time to enter. So it seems his howls and cry are also enforced to the idea that that is what it takes to get me home.

SO, the nerd that I am, I ordered a wireless surveillance web-camera to put in his room. And I am going to close his door and sneak into my own bedroom with my laptop and watch him. Only when he lies down and is calm will I go over and open the door to award him.
Hopefully doing that several times will help.

I will let you know how it works out!

[Basenjimamma]

Good to hear..I sure hope things work out.
I know how frustrating it is when you try one thing after another and nothing seems to work..good luck.

[NerdyDogOwner]

Just a little update.

Things are not going well. The DAP effect wore out pretty fast. But I am still going to use them, hoping they take hold.

I have been using a webcam and watching him, giving him awards when he lies down, and is quiet.

This did seem to work, but after I had to leave the appartment for a few hours I came home to a destroyed dogbed. He had torn it apart, all stuffing was all over, and he had urinated.

4 days has passed, and now he urinates when put in the room and I leave the apartment. Even for short trips, like to the store. I had bought a new bedding, and he destroyed that one too!

I am starting to think more and more of calling the vet and start him on some drugs, but that does seem unfair since I have not really given him a long enough time to fight this.

Anyways, I am now thinking of enforcing "tough love", and just leave the apartment everyday for 3-4 hours (maybe for for a movie or something). And If he urinates, then fine. I will wash it up. My hope is he will start getting used to it….

[nkjvcjs]

Don't think of using behavioral medications as unfair.

My Katie is on prozac, and it has helped her so much that I wish I had put her on it from the beginning. She is still my wonderful, sweet, happy girl, it just helps make the panic less, and helps her recover faster when something does panic her.

Behavioral meds help when used in conjunction with training and behavioral modification. They help even out the panic a bit so that the mind is able to respond to the training.

Be sure you are working with a vet who is studied in behavior and behavioral meds, and be patient, because they can take up to 6 weeks to work.

-Nicole

[NerdyDogOwner]

Isn't there any natural medications availabul? I just don't feel comfortable giving him drugs that will damage his liver/kidneys etc…as all drugs do.
He is only 7 months after all.

I remember I came across some UK site with some "all natural" tablets, but I forgot to save it.

[Basenjimamma]

NerdyDogOwner..sometimes all beds are torn up, no matter how happy or sad the dog is..some dogs are just like that, don't buy a new one just yet, he can sleep on his messed up bed, giving him a new one with fresh stuffing might just feed his desire to tear it up..bored or not.
Yes, tough love might work, just be very matter of fact, no fussing about going out, nor coming back, don't give in to his excitement when you return, just greet him in a calm manner and if cleaning is to be done, do that, no scolding or anything like that. We have tried various things for Otis, but he simply hates being crated, he bites his cratebars, so they look like 8's now instead of straight bars going up and down..I still put him in their and eventually he falls asleep. I also have three more dogs so he has company when looked up, him in one crate, Moses, the podengo in his own crate and our two smaller older ones are loose in the same room…
Yesterday we were crating them up to leave and go look at a new house and Otis refused to go in, and jumped up on our bed and let out this awesome yodel..his first one ever, I laughed and laughed at him, his tail was wiggling and he ran into his crate no problems after that..but he spoke his mind..
Good luck..

[NerdyDogOwner]

Hm, yeah I should go back to using the crate.

Can I ask how long you have them crated? I just feel cruel having him in his crate for 3-4 hours.

[lvoss]

It may be a bit expensive to get one in Europe but you may want to get a Manners Minder, http://www.askdryin.com/manners_minder/, so you can reward him remotely so he doesn't see you come into the room. I don't know the range but you may even be able to use it with you just outside the apartment so you can reward him as you are actually leaving.

Also, when you are putting him in the room, do you give him something like a Kong that takes a while to get the treats out? I found with Nicky's separation anxiety the big tantrum was really for us to hear so if he was distracted while we left he got far less worked up when he realized we were gone.

[renaultf1]

@lvoss:

It may be a bit expensive to get one in Europe but you may want to get a Manners Minder, http://www.askdryin.com/manners_minder/, so you can reward him remotely so he doesn't see you come into the room. I don't know the range but you may even be able to use it with you just outside the apartment so you can reward him as you are actually leaving.

OMG, that thing looks awesome…my next purchase for my kids :D:D.

[Basenjimamma]

Otis will stay in his crate for as long as three or so hours, but I am a stay at home mom, so this is not daily, but it happens that I am gone for that long. Several people have their dogs crated while they are at work, i.e 8+ hours..

I like that gadget as well….hmmm might have to look into one of those...one day.

[NerdyDogOwner]

I am aware of the Manners Minder. Sadly norway has a 25% customs tax on anything over 200NOK. So the product would cost me 25% more, and then there is shipping. The end result would almost be 2x the price.

There are several videos of it in use on YouTube. Most dogs seemed scarred of it. LOL.

But yeah, looks like a nice gadget, but sadly out of my reach.

But I have to question the usefulness of it. I would rather he know I am the one rewarding him. And god knows what happens when I am not home! What if it happened to pop out a treat as he was chewing something he shouldn't! And then he thinks if he chews this, a treat will come! ….or if he is howling when I am not home...suddenly he thinks howling is a good thing.

[thunderbird8588]

Sounds like you're having a hard time. I must admit my first thought was that i wouldn't keep buying him a new bed, as Petra says let him use his ripped one if there's anything left of it If nor maybe use newspaper or something. You must be such a good daddy he doesn't want you to leave him;)

[lvoss]

@NerdyDogOwner:

But I have to question the usefulness of it. I would rather he know I am the one rewarding him. And god knows what happens when I am not home! What if it happened to pop out a treat as he was chewing something he shouldn't! And then he thinks if he chews this, a treat will come! ….or if he is howling when I am not home...suddenly he thinks howling is a good thing.

The problem with you delivering the treat when you are trying to reinforce calm behavior when you are not there is that then you are there so you are reinforcing "when I am here good things happen" instead "when I am not here good things still happen". The issues of not rewarding bad behavior comes down to management, you should not be leaving him in a room or area where he has access to things he shouldn't be doing when unsupervised. As for the howling, I would not be using it to just dispense treats randomly but instead as a way of reinforcing at a distance and slowly increasing the distance.

Going back to square one crate training may be the best solution for you. 3-4 hours in a crate should be fine and the crate can be large, it doesn't have to be small. Mine mostly sleep when we aren't around anyway. Heck, they sleep a whole lot when we are around.

[AJs Human]

Lvoss has great advice regarding square one crate training.

Regarding the use of medication…you have to stop the destructive behavior now. It has been going on too long already. If you do not stop it by whatever means are available to you, you will wind up with a neurotic dog with many, many issues. He is old enough to be by himself for a while. Thus far, I have seen post after post by you describing a dog who is running your life and who can't control himself even at the dog park. You are the human. You are supposed to be running the show.

If it takes medication to get him over the first obstacle, use it. You've already tried naturopathy. Get out the big guns before your dog is completely out of control.

That is my advice. Take it or leave it, but you have to live with the result.