@eeeefarm said in Crate Training Struggles:
What about something like this?
A cabin hook on a spring ? yes, that could well do the trick. I will google one forthwith - thank you !
Alone training
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Good to hear..I sure hope things work out.
I know how frustrating it is when you try one thing after another and nothing seems to work..good luck. -
Just a little update.
Things are not going well. The DAP effect wore out pretty fast. But I am still going to use them, hoping they take hold.
I have been using a webcam and watching him, giving him awards when he lies down, and is quiet.
This did seem to work, but after I had to leave the appartment for a few hours I came home to a destroyed dogbed. He had torn it apart, all stuffing was all over, and he had urinated.
4 days has passed, and now he urinates when put in the room and I leave the apartment. Even for short trips, like to the store. I had bought a new bedding, and he destroyed that one too!
I am starting to think more and more of calling the vet and start him on some drugs, but that does seem unfair since I have not really given him a long enough time to fight this.
Anyways, I am now thinking of enforcing "tough love", and just leave the apartment everyday for 3-4 hours (maybe for for a movie or something). And If he urinates, then fine. I will wash it up. My hope is he will start getting used to it….
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Don't think of using behavioral medications as unfair.
My Katie is on prozac, and it has helped her so much that I wish I had put her on it from the beginning. She is still my wonderful, sweet, happy girl, it just helps make the panic less, and helps her recover faster when something does panic her.
Behavioral meds help when used in conjunction with training and behavioral modification. They help even out the panic a bit so that the mind is able to respond to the training.
Be sure you are working with a vet who is studied in behavior and behavioral meds, and be patient, because they can take up to 6 weeks to work.
-Nicole
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Isn't there any natural medications availabul? I just don't feel comfortable giving him drugs that will damage his liver/kidneys etc…as all drugs do.
He is only 7 months after all.I remember I came across some UK site with some "all natural" tablets, but I forgot to save it.
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NerdyDogOwner..sometimes all beds are torn up, no matter how happy or sad the dog is..some dogs are just like that, don't buy a new one just yet, he can sleep on his messed up bed, giving him a new one with fresh stuffing might just feed his desire to tear it up..bored or not.
Yes, tough love might work, just be very matter of fact, no fussing about going out, nor coming back, don't give in to his excitement when you return, just greet him in a calm manner and if cleaning is to be done, do that, no scolding or anything like that. We have tried various things for Otis, but he simply hates being crated, he bites his cratebars, so they look like 8's now instead of straight bars going up and down..I still put him in their and eventually he falls asleep. I also have three more dogs so he has company when looked up, him in one crate, Moses, the podengo in his own crate and our two smaller older ones are loose in the same room…
Yesterday we were crating them up to leave and go look at a new house and Otis refused to go in, and jumped up on our bed and let out this awesome yodel..his first one ever, I laughed and laughed at him, his tail was wiggling and he ran into his crate no problems after that..but he spoke his mind..
Good luck.. -
Hm, yeah I should go back to using the crate.
Can I ask how long you have them crated? I just feel cruel having him in his crate for 3-4 hours.
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It may be a bit expensive to get one in Europe but you may want to get a Manners Minder, http://www.askdryin.com/manners_minder/, so you can reward him remotely so he doesn't see you come into the room. I don't know the range but you may even be able to use it with you just outside the apartment so you can reward him as you are actually leaving.
Also, when you are putting him in the room, do you give him something like a Kong that takes a while to get the treats out? I found with Nicky's separation anxiety the big tantrum was really for us to hear so if he was distracted while we left he got far less worked up when he realized we were gone.
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It may be a bit expensive to get one in Europe but you may want to get a Manners Minder, http://www.askdryin.com/manners_minder/, so you can reward him remotely so he doesn't see you come into the room. I don't know the range but you may even be able to use it with you just outside the apartment so you can reward him as you are actually leaving.
OMG, that thing looks awesome…my next purchase for my kids :D:D.
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Otis will stay in his crate for as long as three or so hours, but I am a stay at home mom, so this is not daily, but it happens that I am gone for that long. Several people have their dogs crated while they are at work, i.e 8+ hours..
I like that gadget as well….hmmm might have to look into one of those...one day.
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I am aware of the Manners Minder. Sadly norway has a 25% customs tax on anything over 200NOK. So the product would cost me 25% more, and then there is shipping. The end result would almost be 2x the price.
There are several videos of it in use on YouTube. Most dogs seemed scarred of it. LOL.
But yeah, looks like a nice gadget, but sadly out of my reach.
But I have to question the usefulness of it. I would rather he know I am the one rewarding him. And god knows what happens when I am not home! What if it happened to pop out a treat as he was chewing something he shouldn't! And then he thinks if he chews this, a treat will come! ….or if he is howling when I am not home...suddenly he thinks howling is a good thing.
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Sounds like you're having a hard time. I must admit my first thought was that i wouldn't keep buying him a new bed, as Petra says let him use his ripped one if there's anything left of it
If nor maybe use newspaper or something. You must be such a good daddy he doesn't want you to leave him;) -
But I have to question the usefulness of it. I would rather he know I am the one rewarding him. And god knows what happens when I am not home! What if it happened to pop out a treat as he was chewing something he shouldn't! And then he thinks if he chews this, a treat will come! ….or if he is howling when I am not home...suddenly he thinks howling is a good thing.
The problem with you delivering the treat when you are trying to reinforce calm behavior when you are not there is that then you are there so you are reinforcing "when I am here good things happen" instead "when I am not here good things still happen". The issues of not rewarding bad behavior comes down to management, you should not be leaving him in a room or area where he has access to things he shouldn't be doing when unsupervised. As for the howling, I would not be using it to just dispense treats randomly but instead as a way of reinforcing at a distance and slowly increasing the distance.
Going back to square one crate training may be the best solution for you. 3-4 hours in a crate should be fine and the crate can be large, it doesn't have to be small. Mine mostly sleep when we aren't around anyway. Heck, they sleep a whole lot when we are around.
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Lvoss has great advice regarding square one crate training.
Regarding the use of medication…you have to stop the destructive behavior now. It has been going on too long already. If you do not stop it by whatever means are available to you, you will wind up with a neurotic dog with many, many issues. He is old enough to be by himself for a while. Thus far, I have seen post after post by you describing a dog who is running your life and who can't control himself even at the dog park. You are the human. You are supposed to be running the show.
If it takes medication to get him over the first obstacle, use it. You've already tried naturopathy. Get out the big guns before your dog is completely out of control.
That is my advice. Take it or leave it, but you have to live with the result.
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lol…nerdy...it seems that we're in the same boat...
I believe Kairoe is on his third dog bed; all beds were all left in his crate. One was left in out of curiosity, the second was left in by mistake and the third was left in because we felt he could be trusted, seeing as he did not touch the bed the day before...we now know that he is a destructive in-crate-basenji-PERIOD. Are we frustrated? not so much! Expensive? It can be but now we look out for sales on doggy beds! lol.
We can understand what you're going through. Clarisse and I would get into fights because 'someone has to be with the dog at all times.' We did not go to the movies, the mall, dinner dates...[etc]….However, months have gone by and we don't fight anymore...
We decided to go back to square one and fix everything that we 'thought' was good crate training. We left him treats, we left him tired after a walk, we made sure he eliminated prior to leaving and we would let him go into his crate on his own cognition. We tried everything!
Four months have gone by and in that time...
Kairoe had shredded another bed and numerous play toys, because we thought he could be trusted, seeing as he did not touch his bed or toys the day before. The bugger even chewed up his plastic crate pad into three pieces! Funny, how you can't buy another replacement pad!
SOLUTION:
We now leave him with no bedding except for a ragged blanket that he's been shredding since day one. It seems he is shredding the blanket even less.
Kairoe started to eliminate and vomit in his crate
SOLUTION:
Understanding that our dog will eliminate at least two to three times and mark a spot for at least 10 seconds during his first walk of the day helps!
Ensuring that he eats at LEAST an hour before we leave. This stopped him from vomiting due to his axiety.
Leave him in his urine or feces and then following up by making his crate space smaller. This one really concerned us as we always wanted his space to be a happy place for him, but after consulting with our trainer she advised us that he'll be in it if we're gone anyways. Suffice it to say it only took him a couple of times to understand to not eliminate in his crate and by making his crate space smaller ensured that he would not. We made made his space larger at least once but then he eliminated in it, so we reverted back to a smaller space. WE MADE SURE TO NEVER EVER PUNISH HIM FOR ELIMINATING IN HIS CRATE. Nor, did we coddle him or felt bad. We didn't acknowledge what he did but just cleaned up the mess. We're glad that we bought the oversized crate with extra divider!
Other tips...
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when Kairoe begins to lay or play on our bed or couches without permission we immediately tell him to 'get off' and keep him off all furniture for a few days. He will search for a spot on the carpet or floor to rest, but as soon as we see him nod off, we tell him to go to his crate and sleep. He does! We struggle with this one from time to time because we enjoy having him with us when we're chillin' or sleeping, but we know how benfecial it is for his training and for the long run.
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always give him treats when he goes into his crate on his own cognition or when he falls asleep - ALWAYS. He now goes in his crate as soon as he hears the treat package or wakes up to something nice!
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leave a note on your door for your neighbours, just to let them know that the dying dog sounds are from a basenji that is currently being crate trained. This came in handy as our neighbours have all mentioned something about reading the sign, have mentioned that they cannot hear the dog from their unit and the ones that can, have mentioned that Kairoe will only whine for about 10 minutes and then it's quiet!
Kairoe is now a 13 months old and we're still working on his crate training, we're still making mistakes but we're getting better. We even trained ourselves to not feel so guilty when we need to leave him, but we feel more secure that he is safe in his crate, free from anything dangerous. The best thing that happens is that when we do get home, our dog seems happier than hell to see us and becomes more attentive to us!
We are now leaving him loose in the apartment for short bursts no longer than 30 minutes and so far so good. He doesn't destroy anything but stays at the door waiting for us, but he's a Basenji and a smart one too, so we know that once he figures out that we're not coming back he'll find something to chew on. BUT, we're in it for the long run. It might take years or it might be never, we're his humans and we'll find ways to outsmart him anyways!
Hope some of the tips will help.
Emm
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I don't have any tips for you as far as training goes, but I will offer a tip for bedding. When I first brought Callie home, she would shred anything I left in her crate. I took large old sheets & come them into smaller pieces because I always wanted her to have something soft to lay on, but by using old sheets cut into smaller sections, they lasted a bit longer and I wasn't upset when I had to throw them out.
Anytime I go to a Target or Wal-Mart, I look for cheap fleece throw blankets (they often have them for less than $5). You can also go to fabric stores and buy the small pieces of fleece leftover from the ends of bolts for very cheap. Fleece does not fray when it rips, and I've heard its safer than other fabrics if they swallow any. For whatever reason, Callie does not tear up fleece like she does other materials. Its a cheap, soft way to replace torn bedding.
I no longer even try to buy dog beds. Between Lola, Callie & the cat, Spooky, they're just gonna get ruined. The fleece seems to last much longer (current fleece has been around for 10 months now with almost no damage). -
@-Clar|Emm|:
Leave him in his urine or feces and then following up by making his crate space smaller. This one really concerned us as we always wanted his space to be a happy place for him, but after consulting with our trainer she advised us that he'll be in it if we're gone anyways. Suffice it to say it only took him a couple of times to understand to not eliminate in his crate and by making his crate space smaller ensured that he would not. We made made his space larger at least once but then he eliminated in it, so we reverted back to a smaller space. WE MADE SURE TO NEVER EVER PUNISH HIM FOR ELIMINATING IN HIS CRATE. Nor, did we coddle him or felt bad. We didn't acknowledge what he did but just cleaned up the mess. We're glad that we bought the oversized crate with extra divider!
This is something I have been thinking about a lot the past weeks, is the size of his crate. I have read and been told by many, that the crate shouldn't be too big. It should be just enough space so the dog can turn around.
I have a medium sized wire crate that is 765461 cm, it's big enough for him to lay down straight (but not stretched out), and when he curls up he only takes up around 1/3 of the space.As you can see in the pictures.
I might be asking much, but could you show me a picture with him in his crate, so I can see just how much space you are giving? Or if you have the measurements?
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The crate size looks adequate to me. I ditto the comments on the blankets - fleece is good not only because it doesnt' fray but because it's also warm and we all know basenjis like warmth. When I brought my last basenji home, my breeder suggested paper towels in the crate - good for the shredding urge and not much problem if he eats any of it.
However, the bigger issue still is the bahavior of being alone. I agree with AJ - you sort of have to start from step 1 again. When you disappear for a period, or whenever you bring him out of the crate, stand there and wait until he sits and calms himself then give a special treat. If I remember correctly he's a youngster yet so he has a lot of pent-up energy. But you have to be the one in control that lets that energy out.
Separation anxiety is a tough obstacle to work through. -
I think the post by Emm should be made into a sticky! It is full of great info, and shows how sometimes if you really want to change a behavior you have to stick to your plan, and do things you don't really want to do…but it works if you are consistant about it.
Sometimes you do everything you can to make the crate a great place, and the dog still hates it...and if you must use the crate to protect the dog and your house, you have to resort to methods that just make the dog (and you) tough it out.
Great job Emm, Clarr and Kai
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Gizmo doesn't hate his crate. I don't know where people are getting this from. He happily goes in it, sleeps in it, even goes in at command.
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Gizmo doesn't hate his crate. I don't know where people are getting this from. He happily goes in it, sleeps in it, even goes in at command.
Well, then why not put him in his crate so you can leave the house?
