Shock collar training

[Thylacine]

We ordered it when we got the puppy- got it eight weeks after, please don't go there with my wife present-she will go ballistic.
All of the information appeared to have been cut and pasted from online sources. We were switching banks and she had to keep the account open until we could convince someone at evergreen to cash the check. We threw the manual away after flipping through it once. We had ten books by that time and had gone through two trainers. I took a lot of procedural hits on that one.

[Thylacine]

redvelvetlynx, My daughter did expect a magic puppy. He was a biter from the start. I wanted a female but our breeder convinced the girls that a boy would bond with Svetlana better. He intimidates her terribly and she is the root of the problem. I hear about the bites minutes later. My daughter just cries softly, until someone notices. Then it is too late to correct him. However he cheerfully bites the hell out anyone who ignores him, including me. I fear for any intruders life. He goes ballistic when any one enters our yard. I wanted the bigger brother but our breeder said he wasn't for a first time Basinji owner..imagine if I had got him.

[sharronhurlbut]

Thylacine, how long have you had this puppy? Have you talked to the breeder about his behavior?

[sharronhurlbut]

Using 'Dominance' To Explain Dog Behavior Is Old Hat
ScienceDaily (May 25, 2009) — A new study shows how the behaviour of dogs has been misunderstood for generations: in fact using misplaced ideas about dog behaviour and training is likely to cause rather than cure unwanted behaviour. The findings challenge many of the dominance related interpretations of behaviour and training techniques suggested by current TV dog trainers.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090521112711.htm

[Thylacine]

several times-nothing really constructive. He has only one really bad trait. i understand that you can get a lot of very poor short term results with shock collars. But he is dangerous enough that I need to have the means to stop it at once. I have no intention of using this collar for any other behavior modification. I see no other use for these tools.

[sharronhurlbut]

One line that might be of interest to you and this discussion from the site I sent.

In our referral clinic we very often see dogs which have learnt to show aggression to avoid anticipated punishment

So please, be very careful whatever method you decide to use on your dog.

[Basenjimamma]

Thylacine, I feel for you in your frustration and understand that you are at your wits end. I hope you will find the solution for your family and your new boy to coexist in a family type environment. Please let us know how it goes.

[Thylacine]

I agree mostly about this research on dominance-I read the article some time ago. However most of Pharaohs problems DO stem from dominance. He is after the number the number 1 slot not number 2, he regards Svetlana as his junior. having a junior is his basis for taking over the pack. It took my wife months two earn her position above him. He recognizes me as 1. I can take stolen meat from him-Think roast chicken stolen off of the high table when he was 3 months- no one else can.

[Thylacine]

Sharon, I appreciate your concern and respect your advice. My intention is to only use the collar to stop biting. I have no intention to use it for general behavior problems. He is at the point where he could be easily put down for a bite. Assuming there is no alternative to the collar and that it is going to be part of his life for the next two months how would you recommend that I use it along with positive reinforcement so that I can make this lesson short and effective? I would despair of seeing him wearing this thing a year from now.

[sharronhurlbut]

Thylacine, your pup is only 7 months old yes?
Have you considered that maybe this breed isn't the one for you?
I know this sounds like a slam, and I don't mean it to be…many good folks get b's and find they can't live with them..
That is why rescue is in business.
If you find the the dog doesn't fit your family, there is no shame in contacting rescue and talking to them.
Honestly, you will find that once a dog doesn't fit your family, and you rehome it, the stress in your lives will be removed. There is no shame it in.

[Thylacine]

I am deeply offended. You are a complete moron Sharon. Good bye Basenji forum. This place is only about cute stories not solutions.

[Thylacine]

Does any body know how to quickly disengage from this forum? It is a complete waste of time-apparently ran by the evergreen basenji club,order their basenji guide if you want to gauge their organization. All form and no function.

[etzbseder]

I know I'm a little late getting in, so I have to ask. Have you already gotten your dog neutered? I am not thrilled about shock collars, but I know they have their purpose.I also don't agree with many people on some situations, but please stick around as I'm sure you'll still find this forum a useful tool in the future.

[Basenjimamma]

I agree, So there is one thing you don't agree on..with some people, so what. Please don't throw the forum out, as it is a huge source of information, knowledge and fun little tidbits. Since you already looked into using an e-collar, give it a shot, see if it helps.

[etzbseder]

Oh, another question. Are you new to dog ownership? What pets have you had in the past?

[Rita Jean]

Hey I get upset on here and some of the people really get under my hair. Since my hair I can sit on you can see they really get under it. Ha! Ha! Hang in there I am going to have to be put off of here before they will ever run me off. Think of yourself as a Basenji strong willed.

Rita Jean

[lvoss]

A very serious concern when using a shock collar is redirected aggression. Since your dog is already showing aggression issues, you need to understand that there is a very real possibility that shocking your dog when it bites will only teach it that humans are "bad things" and will only increase the dog's aggression towards humans and especially towards whatever human is closest to the dog when it receives the shock.

[Duke]

When Duke was about 7 months old (2006), he was a wild and willy boy! I found this forum and got wonderful advice on the puppy biting issue:

Whenever you feel teeth on your skin, stop whatever you were doing with pup, get up and look away - no eye contact with the pup for 30 - 60 seconds. Then give your pup a toy to play and mouth with. If and when during the play, pup puts teeth on you again, do the same thing - stop playing, get up and make no eye contact for 30-60 seconds. This repitition lets the pup know that when he/she bites - the play stops. Resuming play is the reward for not biting you. Stopping play is negative reinforcement that sends the message. My then 8 year old son, husband and myself were all committed to the routine. It actually worked - in less than a week - probably by day four (I can't remember exactly now). He was an awful mouthy puppy - but a smart one.

Remember to ignore your pup completely - giving no attention verbally or otherwise. They may take any attention as positive reinforcement - in that the biting is the way to get it.

Try it - Good luck!

[etzbseder]

That's good and all if he hasn't tried it yet, which it sounds like he has. That also assumes that the dog is only biting as an overextension of play, which also sounds incorrect.

Just like some kids will go around making messes just cause they feel like it, some dogs will go around biting just for the fun of it.

[agilebasenji]

I think it is easy to give advice over the internet, but without seeing this dog in action, it is almost impossible to gauge the extent of the puppy's behavior. And while most of the advice in this thread is great for the norm, sometimes there are real abnormalities in behavior, beyond the typical puppy stuff. Is this where this Thylacine's puppy falls? I don't think anyone reading this thread can make that assessment. I'm also not convinced that anyone short of a certified behaviorist (not trainer, not typical DVM) can or should. Personally, if I were in this position, I'd get Brenda Aloff's books and follow her advice. I'd probably contact her and ask for recommendations on a behaviorist near me. I've been very impressed with her Aggression in Dogs dvd that I managed to get second hand. I have not made her aggression book a priority since I do not have this sort of problem with my current dogs, but it is on my wish list. But if I had this sort of problem with my dog, I'd have ordered it yesterday.

I posted this for anyone reading this forum who might be going through similiar problems since Thylacine seems to have dropped this forum. I have not ever used a shock collar, so I won't make suggestions as to which one is best. Personally, I'm pretty happy with the level of training I've achieved without a shock collar. <shrug>But I will say, that as the human in your relationship with your dog, YOU get to decide what belongs in that relationship and what doesn't.</shrug>