Shock collar training
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Using 'Dominance' To Explain Dog Behavior Is Old Hat
ScienceDaily (May 25, 2009) — A new study shows how the behaviour of dogs has been misunderstood for generations: in fact using misplaced ideas about dog behaviour and training is likely to cause rather than cure unwanted behaviour. The findings challenge many of the dominance related interpretations of behaviour and training techniques suggested by current TV dog trainers.http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090521112711.htm
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several times-nothing really constructive. He has only one really bad trait. i understand that you can get a lot of very poor short term results with shock collars. But he is dangerous enough that I need to have the means to stop it at once. I have no intention of using this collar for any other behavior modification. I see no other use for these tools.
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One line that might be of interest to you and this discussion from the site I sent.
In our referral clinic we very often see dogs which have learnt to show aggression to avoid anticipated punishment
So please, be very careful whatever method you decide to use on your dog.
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Thylacine, I feel for you in your frustration and understand that you are at your wits end. I hope you will find the solution for your family and your new boy to coexist in a family type environment. Please let us know how it goes.
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I agree mostly about this research on dominance-I read the article some time ago. However most of Pharaohs problems DO stem from dominance. He is after the number the number 1 slot not number 2, he regards Svetlana as his junior. having a junior is his basis for taking over the pack. It took my wife months two earn her position above him. He recognizes me as 1. I can take stolen meat from him-Think roast chicken stolen off of the high table when he was 3 months- no one else can.
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Sharon, I appreciate your concern and respect your advice. My intention is to only use the collar to stop biting. I have no intention to use it for general behavior problems. He is at the point where he could be easily put down for a bite. Assuming there is no alternative to the collar and that it is going to be part of his life for the next two months how would you recommend that I use it along with positive reinforcement so that I can make this lesson short and effective? I would despair of seeing him wearing this thing a year from now.
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Thylacine, your pup is only 7 months old yes?
Have you considered that maybe this breed isn't the one for you?
I know this sounds like a slam, and I don't mean it to be…many good folks get b's and find they can't live with them..
That is why rescue is in business.
If you find the the dog doesn't fit your family, there is no shame in contacting rescue and talking to them.
Honestly, you will find that once a dog doesn't fit your family, and you rehome it, the stress in your lives will be removed. There is no shame it in. -
I know I'm a little late getting in, so I have to ask. Have you already gotten your dog neutered? I am not thrilled about shock collars, but I know they have their purpose.I also don't agree with many people on some situations, but please stick around as I'm sure you'll still find this forum a useful tool in the future.
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I agree, So there is one thing you don't agree on..with some people, so what. Please don't throw the forum out, as it is a huge source of information, knowledge and fun little tidbits. Since you already looked into using an e-collar, give it a shot, see if it helps.
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Hey I get upset on here and some of the people really get under my hair. Since my hair I can sit on you can see they really get under it. Ha! Ha! Hang in there I am going to have to be put off of here before they will ever run me off. Think of yourself as a Basenji strong willed.
Rita Jean
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A very serious concern when using a shock collar is redirected aggression. Since your dog is already showing aggression issues, you need to understand that there is a very real possibility that shocking your dog when it bites will only teach it that humans are "bad things" and will only increase the dog's aggression towards humans and especially towards whatever human is closest to the dog when it receives the shock.
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When Duke was about 7 months old (2006), he was a wild and willy boy! I found this forum and got wonderful advice on the puppy biting issue:
Whenever you feel teeth on your skin, stop whatever you were doing with pup, get up and look away - no eye contact with the pup for 30 - 60 seconds. Then give your pup a toy to play and mouth with. If and when during the play, pup puts teeth on you again, do the same thing - stop playing, get up and make no eye contact for 30-60 seconds. This repitition lets the pup know that when he/she bites - the play stops. Resuming play is the reward for not biting you. Stopping play is negative reinforcement that sends the message. My then 8 year old son, husband and myself were all committed to the routine. It actually worked - in less than a week - probably by day four (I can't remember exactly now). He was an awful mouthy puppy - but a smart one.
Remember to ignore your pup completely - giving no attention verbally or otherwise. They may take any attention as positive reinforcement - in that the biting is the way to get it.
Try it - Good luck!
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That's good and all if he hasn't tried it yet, which it sounds like he has. That also assumes that the dog is only biting as an overextension of play, which also sounds incorrect.
Just like some kids will go around making messes just cause they feel like it, some dogs will go around biting just for the fun of it.
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I think it is easy to give advice over the internet, but without seeing this dog in action, it is almost impossible to gauge the extent of the puppy's behavior. And while most of the advice in this thread is great for the norm, sometimes there are real abnormalities in behavior, beyond the typical puppy stuff. Is this where this Thylacine's puppy falls? I don't think anyone reading this thread can make that assessment. I'm also not convinced that anyone short of a certified behaviorist (not trainer, not typical DVM) can or should. Personally, if I were in this position, I'd get Brenda Aloff's books and follow her advice. I'd probably contact her and ask for recommendations on a behaviorist near me. I've been very impressed with her Aggression in Dogs dvd that I managed to get second hand. I have not made her aggression book a priority since I do not have this sort of problem with my current dogs, but it is on my wish list. But if I had this sort of problem with my dog, I'd have ordered it yesterday.
I posted this for anyone reading this forum who might be going through similiar problems since Thylacine seems to have dropped this forum. I have not ever used a shock collar, so I won't make suggestions as to which one is best. Personally, I'm pretty happy with the level of training I've achieved without a shock collar. <shrug>But I will say, that as the human in your relationship with your dog, YOU get to decide what belongs in that relationship and what doesn't.</shrug>
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I know many people are against the "shock collar". It may have been a very painful and inhumane tool in it's history. I haven't really researched the earlier generations of the shock collar, so I can't speak intelligently about those.
We do, however, have a shock/beep collar for Paxton that has a 100 yard radius. I have to say, it's been wonderful for nature walks (I wouldn't recommend it for "around the neighborhood"). The collar we use allows you to set the shock level (I can hold it in my hand and execute a shock on level 4 without much physical reaction) to a setting that is able to get the dog's attention, or simply just "beep" or page the collar that sets off a bell to let your dog know he's crossing a line. It also has a built in safety that only allows the execution of a shock for 8 seconds in case you get too crazy or accidently press the button in your pocket without realizing it before it will turn off completely (I know 8 seconds worth of shock is horrible, but come on, it's better than forever).We've only had to shock Paxton a few times after giving the warning page before he learned to respond to the beep. Since then, when we go hiking Paxton usually runs up and down the trails with us close in front or behind. If I feel he's getting to far ahead or may decide to pursue in a chase (I realize he is a sighthound) a good whistle or call get's his attention.
However, as I noted earlier, I would never recommend the collar as an alternative to a leash around any streets or dangers in the neighborhood. It is just a shock (even on level 10, which feels like a taser). Which means, just like humans, if the "juice is worth the squeeze" the Basenji will probably go for it. Small price to pay to chase that rabbit you've been itching for all week. I realize and understand the hatred for shock collar's. However in my opinion, if your intention is to try and train you Basenji to respond to your voice while out for a stroll, and you understand that it really is just a safety measure (your still rolling the dice, they're just heavy), the collar should work out nicely.
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Thank you and it was so we can go to dog park and Jaycee can run and have fun without worry. Dog Parks do not have a fence around them. Jaycee done great and there are many days she never sees it or wears it she has learned the words and what to do. Like place or wait what ever great. Jaycee is really lots of fun and we never do anything to ever hurt or break her spirit.
Rita Jean
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And yet at a dog park if you deliver a shock with another dog around you could trigger a fight because of redirected aggression.
Dogs don't need to run free nearly as much as people think. They do need physical exercise but they can get that with daily walks and those walks are a wonderful opportunity to also satisfy their need for companionship and mental stimulation. Too many people go to dog parks to "let their dog run" but really are also doing it because they don't have to interact as much with the dog as it is running loose.
