Shock collar training

[etzbseder]

Oh, another question. Are you new to dog ownership? What pets have you had in the past?

[Rita Jean]

Hey I get upset on here and some of the people really get under my hair. Since my hair I can sit on you can see they really get under it. Ha! Ha! Hang in there I am going to have to be put off of here before they will ever run me off. Think of yourself as a Basenji strong willed.

Rita Jean

[lvoss]

A very serious concern when using a shock collar is redirected aggression. Since your dog is already showing aggression issues, you need to understand that there is a very real possibility that shocking your dog when it bites will only teach it that humans are "bad things" and will only increase the dog's aggression towards humans and especially towards whatever human is closest to the dog when it receives the shock.

[Duke]

When Duke was about 7 months old (2006), he was a wild and willy boy! I found this forum and got wonderful advice on the puppy biting issue:

Whenever you feel teeth on your skin, stop whatever you were doing with pup, get up and look away - no eye contact with the pup for 30 - 60 seconds. Then give your pup a toy to play and mouth with. If and when during the play, pup puts teeth on you again, do the same thing - stop playing, get up and make no eye contact for 30-60 seconds. This repitition lets the pup know that when he/she bites - the play stops. Resuming play is the reward for not biting you. Stopping play is negative reinforcement that sends the message. My then 8 year old son, husband and myself were all committed to the routine. It actually worked - in less than a week - probably by day four (I can't remember exactly now). He was an awful mouthy puppy - but a smart one.

Remember to ignore your pup completely - giving no attention verbally or otherwise. They may take any attention as positive reinforcement - in that the biting is the way to get it.

Try it - Good luck!

[etzbseder]

That's good and all if he hasn't tried it yet, which it sounds like he has. That also assumes that the dog is only biting as an overextension of play, which also sounds incorrect.

Just like some kids will go around making messes just cause they feel like it, some dogs will go around biting just for the fun of it.

[agilebasenji]

I think it is easy to give advice over the internet, but without seeing this dog in action, it is almost impossible to gauge the extent of the puppy's behavior. And while most of the advice in this thread is great for the norm, sometimes there are real abnormalities in behavior, beyond the typical puppy stuff. Is this where this Thylacine's puppy falls? I don't think anyone reading this thread can make that assessment. I'm also not convinced that anyone short of a certified behaviorist (not trainer, not typical DVM) can or should. Personally, if I were in this position, I'd get Brenda Aloff's books and follow her advice. I'd probably contact her and ask for recommendations on a behaviorist near me. I've been very impressed with her Aggression in Dogs dvd that I managed to get second hand. I have not made her aggression book a priority since I do not have this sort of problem with my current dogs, but it is on my wish list. But if I had this sort of problem with my dog, I'd have ordered it yesterday.

I posted this for anyone reading this forum who might be going through similiar problems since Thylacine seems to have dropped this forum. I have not ever used a shock collar, so I won't make suggestions as to which one is best. Personally, I'm pretty happy with the level of training I've achieved without a shock collar. <shrug>But I will say, that as the human in your relationship with your dog, YOU get to decide what belongs in that relationship and what doesn't.</shrug>

[Paxton]

I know many people are against the "shock collar". It may have been a very painful and inhumane tool in it's history. I haven't really researched the earlier generations of the shock collar, so I can't speak intelligently about those.

We do, however, have a shock/beep collar for Paxton that has a 100 yard radius. I have to say, it's been wonderful for nature walks (I wouldn't recommend it for "around the neighborhood"). The collar we use allows you to set the shock level (I can hold it in my hand and execute a shock on level 4 without much physical reaction) to a setting that is able to get the dog's attention, or simply just "beep" or page the collar that sets off a bell to let your dog know he's crossing a line. It also has a built in safety that only allows the execution of a shock for 8 seconds in case you get too crazy or accidently press the button in your pocket without realizing it before it will turn off completely (I know 8 seconds worth of shock is horrible, but come on, it's better than forever).We've only had to shock Paxton a few times after giving the warning page before he learned to respond to the beep. Since then, when we go hiking Paxton usually runs up and down the trails with us close in front or behind. If I feel he's getting to far ahead or may decide to pursue in a chase (I realize he is a sighthound) a good whistle or call get's his attention.

However, as I noted earlier, I would never recommend the collar as an alternative to a leash around any streets or dangers in the neighborhood. It is just a shock (even on level 10, which feels like a taser). Which means, just like humans, if the "juice is worth the squeeze" the Basenji will probably go for it. Small price to pay to chase that rabbit you've been itching for all week. I realize and understand the hatred for shock collar's. However in my opinion, if your intention is to try and train you Basenji to respond to your voice while out for a stroll, and you understand that it really is just a safety measure (your still rolling the dice, they're just heavy), the collar should work out nicely.

[Rita Jean]

Thank you and it was so we can go to dog park and Jaycee can run and have fun without worry. Dog Parks do not have a fence around them. Jaycee done great and there are many days she never sees it or wears it she has learned the words and what to do. Like place or wait what ever great. Jaycee is really lots of fun and we never do anything to ever hurt or break her spirit.

Rita Jean

[lvoss]

And yet at a dog park if you deliver a shock with another dog around you could trigger a fight because of redirected aggression.

Dogs don't need to run free nearly as much as people think. They do need physical exercise but they can get that with daily walks and those walks are a wonderful opportunity to also satisfy their need for companionship and mental stimulation. Too many people go to dog parks to "let their dog run" but really are also doing it because they don't have to interact as much with the dog as it is running loose.

[Basenjimamma]

I have yet to visit a dog park with Otis, but looked at a few in our area, and they are all fenced in, even the really large 20 acre ones. Who knows, once we go, I might not want to let him go, but it is nice to know that I could, if I really wanted to.
I have a big question to ask, actually my husband does…How do they do it in Africa? How do they make sure their B's don't run away there? We got into a heated conversation about it and I had no great answers for it..so he won..LOL. Does anybody know?

[Rita Jean]

O Jaycee gets more walking and companionship then you'll evey know. Jaycee has somebody with her all time one of us is at home. The other day was the first time she got left alone for about one hour.
Walking 1st me, 2nd my son, 3rd my daughter, 4th my husband, and 5th my daughter's boyfriend. There are 5 walks plus everyday and yard time.
We do not do dog park on weekend were there are lots and lots of dogs. Jaycee has no aggression and that is how I take what you have said. Jaycee is no fighter she has Bolts, Spice, Sterling around her at home and she is great.

Rita Jean

[lvoss]

@Basenjimamma:

I have a big question to ask, actually my husband does…How do they do it in Africa? How do they make sure their B's don't run away there? We got into a heated conversation about it and I had no great answers for it..so he won..LOL. Does anybody know?

The relationship. There is a reason for them to come back. They get food, shelter, companionship, and a safe place to raise their pups.

[lvoss]

Redirected aggression can happen in a dog that has no aggressive tendencies under normal conditions. Redirected aggression is often seen in situations like when a dog gets itself caught in/on something and the owner goes to free it and gets bit because they dog is scared and in pain. This same thing is seen in dogs with shock collars. They get shocked, don't understand why, and redirect their confusion, frustration, fear onto whatever is closest. This is not about aggression in the sense that the dog goes around looking for a fight.

[tanza]

Put yourself in the place of your dog…. you are out playing... you have no idea there are boundries... you get to close to what the human thinks is a boundry limit... you get shocked?... you have no idea why this happened... for all you know it was the dog/person/critter next to you that caused the pain you received... what do you do? You go after the closest thing to you.. "redirect agression"

[Rita Jean]

This why we learned at home what this way means she knows to far come back some. Since learning in our yard we have yet had to do anything at dog park all we say is this way and Jaycee comes back.

Rita Jean

[Basenjimamma]

The relationship. There is a reason for them to come back. They get food, shelter, companionship, and a safe place to raise their pups.

That is exactly what I said to my hubby but he didn't buy that, now I can tell him that you said it too. I guess the reason they don't get run away to follow their nose si because the follow their nose daily "while at work" and they have no cars to be worried about either, I guess.

[lvoss]

I am sure that they disappear for spans of time but they return because the relationship is mutually beneficial. It is also probably far safer to stay near humans without wandering too far because of the predators in the area.

[tanza]

And Dogs are pack/herd animals… the humans and the other dogs in the village are their pack..

[snorky998]

Now that I read some of the posts here, I might concede there are extreme circumstances where a shock collar may work. However…..

....taking them off leash or in an unsecured play area for my pleasure, then using this type of collar to "train", makes no sense to me.

I'd rather keep my 2 at home, walking, playing, and chasing with free will and compassionate/positive tactics for positive, and even negative behaviors.

To each his own, but let no harm come to those that have been entrusted to us. They are as emotionally sensitive--even more so in some circumstances--than we are.

[meyerp006]

Hmmm.
Read most of the posts and still don't know what to do. I have been contemplating getting a shock collar as well, or at least one of the noise making ones.
My only problem with my dog is the running off leash. Granted, she's on leash all the time when outside now, but these dogs are smart. She knows she can turn around, pull hard enough and get the collar over her head, she also knows she can bite through a leash if given the time. Accidents happen, people come over and open the door and the dog gets out. Doesn't happen often, but when it does she's off to explore at full speed. Now, when my dog is running into the highway into traffic and won't stop, it would be nice to reinforce my "NO!!!!" with something. Treats don't help when the dog is 50 yards away about to get run over by a humvee.
Other than this, she's a great dog. Doesn't care one bit whether it's raining or not, she'll run around in the rain for hours. Doesn't chew anything she isn't supposed to. I lost one audio cable in my truck at about 6 months, and that was it, a good stern "NO, not yours" and she's never touched an electrical cord again. (I'm a computer tech, I've got electronics everywhere in my house) I don't even crate her when I leave the house most of the time because she only chews her bones and toys. But if she gets off the leash she isn't coming back if there are people or other animals around to meet, not without a fight. Now, I don't want to hurt or traumatize the dog, but I want to scrape her smashed corpse off the road even less. So if anyone has been able to deal with this kind of a issue I'd love some advice.