ok well i guess we will agree to disagree. im not going to fight with anyone. Its my opinion and in my experience getting a puppy and raising it as you want it will be how it ends up. my female has gotten along with all females, occasionally there is a little disagreement but it ends and they are fine. I have my beliefs and you have yours. ill leave it at that.
Without taking sides, in that I am "for" or "against" anyone, I can understand where Marli's mom is coming from. She brought this dog into her life in the early summer, and its not working out. The breeder has said, "whatever", in that she won't refund her, but she'd take her back (and sell her again). If you know the dog isn't your forever dog, why spend $300 to get her spayed… when the next person may/may not want her intact, or is willing to spend that money?
We aren't all professional breeders, but we ARE all basenji LOVERS~ yes? Rather than list her dog on Craig's List, Miss P has chosen to ask for help to place this dog here. Will Cesar M's rules be followed by any basenji? ha ha. However, at the end of the day, Miss P wants her Marli to find a happy home, without the help of ebay or CL or oodle.com.
Rather than spend time digging our heels in, I bet that the basenji organization in the thriving metropolitan of... SOUTH DAKOTA... is of little use to Miss P. If the power of the internet can help Marli find a forever home, so be it.
Just my 2 cents.
I do not know if you have had her thyroid tested-a complete thyroid test done, but I would. I have had young Bs that have needed thryoid supplementation.
Jennifer
Without taking sides, in that I am "for" or "against" anyone, I can understand where Marli's mom is coming from. She brought this dog into her life in the early summer, and its not working out. The breeder has said, "whatever", in that she won't refund her, but she'd take her back (and sell her again). If you know the dog isn't your forever dog, why spend $300 to get her spayed… when the next person may/may not want her intact, or is willing to spend that money?
We aren't all professional breeders, but we ARE all basenji LOVERS~ yes? Rather than list her dog on Craig's List, Miss P has chosen to ask for help to place this dog here. Will Cesar M's rules be followed by any basenji? ha ha. However, at the end of the day, Miss P wants her Marli to find a happy home, without the help of ebay or CL or oodle.com.
Rather than spend time digging our heels in, I bet that the basenji organization in the thriving metropolitan of... SOUTH DAKOTA... is of little use to Miss P. If the power of the internet can help Marli find a forever home, so be it.
Just my 2 cents.
I disagree, I don't think any of us here are "professional" breeders… we are hobby breeders, breeding to better the breed, not just pump out puppies.
And she has not "asked" to help place, she is selling the bitch, not just finding a home. And you ask if she should spend the money to spay? IMO, yes... if all she is looking for is that forever home. At the end of the day, while maybe she wants that good home, she always wants money to cover what she put into the bitch and is willing to place her in a breeding situation... regardless if she (the bitch) is of good conformation and/or health tested.
At the end of the day, while maybe she wants that good home, she always wants money to cover what she put into the bitch and is willing to place her in a breeding situation… regardless if she (the bitch) is of good conformation and/or health tested.
And don't forget temperament. The reason this bitch is being placed is for temperament issues and yet she is willing to place it into a breeding situation where it will produce more puppies with temperament issues.
If the breeder will not take it back and she will not pay for spay then she should contact BRAT and see if she is good candidate for rescue because they will make sure she is spayed, they screen their homes thoroughly and have a large network of support for the dog and the new owners.
If I'm reading her posts right, Miss P. is 19 years young. She is NOT a Back Yard Breeder, nor a Puppy Mill, nor even a "Hobbyist" breeder, whatever that means.
Simply, she had a basenji she's loved for the last 10 years and thought that she could breed dogs. Call it being naive, call it following her dream, whatever. She saved her money and bought her puppy, later named Marli, so she could possibly show her, and then breed her with another stud champion.
Miss P. didn't come to this forum to get bashed around. Things aren't going as she imagined, so she's trying to find another home for her 8 month old, and to recoup some of her costs…. she's 19 years old, after all. Can we keep that in mind when we decide to cast judgement?
Go back and read some of her earlier post when she decided to get this bitch…. there was more then a little conversation that this was not a good idea and why... and also the question was raised if this bitch was from a responsible breeder...
And Hobby breeders are ones that breed to improve the breed, not to make money, if fact rarely even cover the cost of breeding a litter...
The price she is trying to get is really not realistic, regardless of what she paid or has put into the bitch.
And even at 19, lessons are sometimes really hard... you swallow your pride, do what is best... and learn by your mistakes... at any age... so the fact that she way overpaid for this girl to begin with is and has to be considered a lesson learned.
However, note in this case that she is still planning to get yet another bitch and breed....
Patty, you are a sweet, tolerant, nice person. I can see this from your postings. But age really shouldn't serve as a shield when we're talking about the serious business of selling or breeding other living creatures. 19 years of age is not too young to learn to take responsibility for your own actions. That's what I tell the freshmen I catch plagiarizing or cheating in my college-level courses – I've heard "she's 19 years old, after all" from well-intentioned parents, but I file the academic dishonesty paperwork anyway. Now plagiarism is hardly comparable to the process of establishing a kennel... but I'm jumping in because that statement just struck a chord with me.
Back to the subject... By all accounts, Miss P. wants to do things expertly; the tone of her Praireland Basenjis website (which I think you've read carefully) conveys just that. But what I'm seeing pointed out on this public forum -- in brusque terms, perhaps, but honest ones -- is that something's amiss. $1000 - $1500 is a lot to pay for a "pedigreed" Basenji of questionable temperament, no matter how much was put into her. It was too much to pay to begin with, and the financial loss should be taken as part of the "lesson" that it really ISN'T that easy to acquire/show/breed dogs. Puppies are not blank slates, even at the age of 8 weeks. Since the seller in question is rehoming her dog because of a situational issue that she has admittedly been vague about (i.e. dog nipping son, seller not having time to work with 9 month old puppy), I think there is legitimate reason to question how she has the time to raise the 8 week old puppy that she is requesting as a trade.
There's questioning, and there's judgment. I think the former is called for here, and there has been a lot of that, but I haven't seen any 'bashing' or insults, just what some might call "brutal honesty."
Curlytails… thank you for your post, very well put... and very honest and very much to the point... much better then I did....... and I would only like to add regarding price of pups... there are many of us here on the Forum that place our pups for around 1000.00.. but they are fully health tested, of good temperament and on a contract that not only covers if you have to "give" up your pups for any reason (doesn't address a refund however, but addresses the fact that you can not just "sell" your Basenji, period)... and if they must be spay/neutered.... As many of you know if you live in California, our Vet prices are way more then many other places in the US... so the cost to raising a litter over and above things like health testing is pretty high... and we all know that anything and everything can go wrong in whelping a litter....
If I'm reading her posts right, Miss P. is 19 years young. She is NOT a Back Yard Breeder, nor a Puppy Mill, nor even a "Hobbyist" breeder, whatever that means.
Simply, she had a basenji she's loved for the last 10 years and thought that she could breed dogs. Call it being naive, call it following her dream, whatever. She saved her money and bought her puppy, later named Marli, so she could possibly show her, and then breed her with another stud champion.Miss P. didn't come to this forum to get bashed around. Things aren't going as she imagined, so she's trying to find another home for her 8 month old, and to recoup some of her costs…. she's 19 years old, after all. Can we keep that in mind when we decide to cast judgement?
That is honeslty exactly my situation. and i appreciate you being kind about it. I have a 10 month old son, and i need all the money i can get. I DO want her to have a good home and i DO NOT have the money to get her spayed just to sell her. i dont want to put any more money into her than i have already because i dont have a job nor do i have the money to do so. I did come on this forum to get help and maybe get some money back. I DO want a puppy so that it can be part of my family and yes if i do breed i will be doing all the health testing –as i planned to do with marli before i decided to sell her for the incidents that have happend-- so im sorry if people dont agree with that.
And thank you PAtty M, that was also nice of you. I know you werent taking sides but i appreciate the input to share your side of the situation. and lot of people dont even know what a basenji is in south dakota, so your right the basenji community is definately "trhiving" here 
funny that you mention it, i do try Cesars methods on my dogs, along with the dogs that I train and it works wonders...
marli is a little more difficult but i dont have the time right NOW to work with her to fix it when i can start fresh--even if that sounds extremely horible as i can see some people may say--with an 8 week old puppy.
Several years ago when Whitney [this is Miss P's first name] came to me for advice… I gave her TONS of it... loads of education on Basenjis, breeding, etc. She had a girl and she was interested in my boys and/or a puppy.
I also was not willing to sell her a Basenji... due to the fact that she continually told me she wanted to breed and didn't need the show quality pups, she would take something for lesser money.
I had no interest in one of my Basenjis be put into this kind of situation. Several years have gone by... nothing has changed. Except that she now is an older kid with a kid. And having a puppy is apparently not the best of situations for her family at this time.
Go to Companion Pets, get the puppy spayed. THEN find her a good home.
A r/w spayed bitch would be easily placed... and at her age, there should be no reason you couldn't place her for $500. That would sound to be the best thing she could do at this time.
Miss P., you said yourself that you are a "very poor" person and money as well as time is an issue for you right now with your child, but according to your website, you have another puppy coming in the middle or end of October. As in, one month from now? From a breeder that's not even registered with the BCOA, despite the loads of literature and recommendations on your own website? I don't understand how you still think that's a good idea, given what you've shared about your priorities here.
And if that sounds "insulting" or judgmental because I am confused by your decision, so be it.
Apologies to the original poster who was just looking around for a young pup – hope he/she's not being spammed to death with e-mail notifications.
I have found her a nice home. Thanks everyone for all the input.
and im sorry if this sounds rude and mean but this is going to be my opinion. A few of you who breed basenjis seems like you are all that counts, that you guys think everyone else is a piece of crap because they want to start breeding. YOU started breeding at one time. Some people have to do it differently but truely want to do it for the good of the breed and want to start showing and do TRULY love the breed. Maybe we need a little help in that start. not alot of criticism of how horrible we are and how stupid and that its a bad idea…but its ALWAYS a bad idea when its not YOU breeding them because you think you know so much about them. Maybe you do. but you can use that to help instead of critizise. If someone is going to do it they are going to do it help or not. Wouldnt it be better to do it with help and guidance and done correctly than to have to go to a BYB or hobby breeder to get a puppy?
I DO want a puppy with show potential and I have been looking. First of all yes marli didnt get along well with my home and my situation and yes that is why i found her a home, also because i realized she wasnt going to do well in a show after seeing her attitude and temperament. What makes me so mad in this whole situation is because people act like im so bad and like they KNOW me. NO ONE KNOWS ME ON HERE...and that makes me so mad that people judge me without knowing me. Sure I am trying to get a breedable basenjis but i am up front about it because i want the breeder to know that i DO want to IN TIME and I want a breeder to help me do it right and be behind me in helping me have the right experience. Just because you have been in the business for a long time and you are "popular" doesnt mean you are big **** and invincible to the people who are just starting off.
Im sorry if i sound snobby and ignorant but honestly i am hurt by what people are saying and the topper was Khani. You are NOT so perfect and i may be attacked for saying that but its the truth. and you do NOT know me. And I didnt go for something "for less money" as obviously 1200 dollars isnt cheap (whether she is a good show dog or not) I have talked with the breeder and i admit i made a mistake paying that much for a dog that wouldnt make the cut in the ring (so i found her a home for that reason and the others) I am only human. ill make mistakes as I know each and everyone of you have.
I HONESTLY just wanted some help and to get to know more basenji people, and not to be ganged up on just because everyone thinks they know so much more than me. Yes you might know alot but you dont know me and i take an extreme amount of offense when people start judging me when they have no idea what my situation is or who i am as a person....
I rarely get on this site but have seen the dialogue that has taken place. Whitney reserved Marli from us in April and we believed we had made a commitment to her. Several times, she had attempted to make arrangements to come get her but these fell through. Through this, she had requested
that we do various things to help get her ready to go to her new home, which we willingly did. Whitney stated she paid $1200 for Marli, which is ABSOLUTELY not true! She paid almost half that and the remainder of what she paid was minimal board ($2/day) and what we charged for my husband taking time off work and delivering her to Whitney's doorstep four months after she was reserved! We learned much in this process. I guess we put more weight on our word to Whitney than on the welfare of the dog. We did say we wanted to take Marli back but would not give her a full refund. She wanted us to take Marli back and if she gave us another $100-200 dollars, she could get a puppy with full registration if we had another litter. We would not agree to this arrangement. We don't know if we are going to have another litter and IF we do, the puppies will receive Limited registration. This is what Whitney was told. I know we made mistakes in this whole process and don't need to be blasted.
and im sorry if this sounds rude and mean but this is going to be my opinion. A few of you who breed basenjis seems like you are all that counts, that you guys think everyone else is a piece of crap because they want to start breeding. YOU started breeding at one time. Some people have to do it differently but truely want to do it for the good of the breed and want to start showing and do TRULY love the breed.
Let me just start by saying it is a real pet peeve of mine when people say they are sorry when they obviously are not. So I will not apologize for this post because I mean every word of it.
The breeders on here that you are addressing do not think they are "all that counts" but they do strongly feel that being a RESPONSIBLE breeder is the only way to do it. I am one of those people. Responsible breeders do come in different "flavors" so to speak but they have certain traits in common. They do the health testing, they breed for temperament, show the quality of their stock in the conformation ring and performance venues, and they take responsibility for every puppy for ALL its life. So in those ways, you are right they are inflexible in what breeding requires. If you are not willing to do those things then you are also right that they will call you on it every time because they have seen far too much of what happens when you don't take care of these things.
@misspodhradsky:
What makes me so mad in this whole situation is because people act like im so bad and like they KNOW me. NO ONE KNOWS ME ON HERE…and that makes me so mad that people judge me without knowing me.
You are right, that know one knows you personally on this forum. On this forum, we are what we write. So if you don't like what people are saying to you then you need to think about what you are saying to everyone. You have not truly listened to any of the advice given and instead just defend doing exactly the same things that led to the problems you had with Marli.
@misspodhradsky:
Sure I am trying to get a breedable basenjis but i am up front about it because i want the breeder to know that i DO want to IN TIME and I want a breeder to help me do it right and be behind me in helping me have the right experience.
If this statement were really true then you should be able to find a responsible breeder willing to co-own and mentor you. The puppy will have "strings" since any breeder who has invested their time and soul in building a line will not just give that over to a novice to anything with. You would have to agree to show, test, and if the dog proves to be show quality the stud would have to be approved by the co-owner.
I HONESTLY just wanted some help and to get to know more basenji people
If this is HONESTLY true then stop being so defensive and attacking everyone else and listen to what they are saying because they do have experience in this breed and have seen and made plenty of mistakes to know what they are talking about.
Well, I should just keep quiet, but I can't. Honestly, if I had a small child and was out of work, I would NOT be taking on such additional responsibility of trying to build a breeding program. But perhaps I WOULD look to be mentored by a reputable basenji breeder - a good place to start. Animals, like children, are not disposable. And children don't even come into the world with a "clean slate". Nine months in the womb and genetics is well enough to produce a life that cannot be easily molded.
Ultimately, too many people look at breeding dogs as a cash cow.
Well said Fran. I see these "cash" cow b's in rescue all the time.
Course, the "breeder" won't take them back…
I have been reading this and been biting my tongue..but I have to say…Fran and Sharron..I am with you on this one.
Patty, you are a sweet, tolerant, nice person. I can see this from your postings. But age really shouldn't serve as a shield when we're talking about the serious business of selling or breeding other living creatures. 19 years of age is not too young to learn to take responsibility for your own actions. That's what I tell the freshmen I catch plagiarizing or cheating in my college-level courses – I've heard "she's 19 years old, after all" from well-intentioned parents, but I file the academic dishonesty paperwork anyway. Now plagiarism is hardly comparable to the process of establishing a kennel... but I'm jumping in because that statement just struck a chord with me.
Back to the subject... By all accounts, Miss P. wants to do things expertly; the tone of her Praireland Basenjis website (which I think you've read carefully) conveys just that. But what I'm seeing pointed out on this public forum -- in brusque terms, perhaps, but honest ones -- is that something's amiss. $1000 - $1500 is a lot to pay for a "pedigreed" Basenji of questionable temperament, no matter how much was put into her. It was too much to pay to begin with, and the financial loss should be taken as part of the "lesson" that it really ISN'T that easy to acquire/show/breed dogs. Puppies are not blank slates, even at the age of 8 weeks. Since the seller in question is rehoming her dog because of a situational issue that she has admittedly been vague about (i.e. dog nipping son, seller not having time to work with 9 month old puppy), I think there is legitimate reason to question how she has the time to raise the 8 week old puppy that she is requesting as a trade.
There's questioning, and there's judgment. I think the former is called for here, and there has been a lot of that, but I haven't seen any 'bashing' or insults, just what some might call "brutal honesty."
So good, I just had to post it again 
Someone who really has the breed's (and the individual dog's) best interest in mind isn't looking to make her money back….period.... She needs to chalk it up to live and learn, and try to find the best possible situation for the DOG...not her wallet.
Way, way back in 1993, I got my first B.
Someone at the Evergreen Basenji Club told me and my husband that people don't breed B's for $, but for the love of the breed.
I guess you could do it for the $ if people are willing to pay $1000 but wouldn't it just be easier to not spend the $ in the first place?
I'm just a pet owner so know nothing about breeding. Unfortunately, I would keep all the puppies so would flunk as a breeder!:o
