Filas are classified as Dangerous Dogs in the UK. Obviously a case of nurture not nature.
Ad Found with Random Google
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I wasn't really sure where this should go since they aren't rescues and I'm not the seller.
I found this ad when I was randomly Googling…
I'm a bit disturbed about it because it does not appear to be a real kennel. I say this because I don't hear of anyone running a kennel just advertising on a TV station website for anyone to get a pup. Most of y'all breeders have your pups reserved before they are born.
What do y'all think?
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No health testing info, ready to go home at 8 weeks, "barkless" dogs as a selling point…. I'd say probably not a legit reputable breeder, but who knows? I've heard several breeders are having difficulty finding homes this year due to buyers backing out, and some are turning to sources for advertising that they normally wouldn't in other years (newspapers, etc).
The source of advertising doesn't make me necessarily think disreputable, again, its the lack of health testing and the 8 weeks old factor. -
Interesting, there was a b/w intact bitch in a shelter in Utah not terribly far from there. Perhaps a coincidence, perhaps not…if it's a BYB getting rid of an older dog.
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No health testing info, ready to go home at 8 weeks, "barkless" dogs as a selling point…. I'd say probably not a legit reputable breeder, but who knows? I've heard several breeders are having difficulty finding homes this year due to buyers backing out, and some are turning to sources for advertising that they normally wouldn't in other years (newspapers, etc).
The source of advertising doesn't make me necessarily think disreputable, again, its the lack of health testing and the 8 weeks old factor.Pardon my stupidity - but whats with the 8weeks thing? Isn't 8 weeks a normal age for pups?
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Pups tend to go to their new homes at 8 weeks in the UK, in the USA i think it tends to be later Anette
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Pups tend to go to their new homes at 8 weeks in the UK, in the USA i think it tends to be later Anette
Oki, thank you.
I norway 8 weeks is standard, some small breeds at 12 weeks. Im picking up my boy 1 or 2 days before he is 8 weeks, and the breeder says that she never gives out pups younger than 8 weeks, not even a day, if they don't have another dog that is good with pups. -
Pups will often get evaluated at 8 wks plus have their eyes checked and first round of shots in that general timeframe or later. I didn't get my puppy until 11 wks. I know some who keep them 13-14 wks.
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Looks 'spicious at best..
8 weeks is absolute minimum here in the states (per breeders choice of course, some let them go way before that, then again, I am not sure you would consider that a reputable or responsible breeder..) 10 weeks is more the norm..
I have a friend buy a golden retriver boy from a "breeder".."very nice lady and yes she was a real breeder", my friend said when I questioned it..she got that pup home when it was 5 weeks old…insanity..now, that pup at about 9 months bites everything and everybody.."just for fun" (again, according to my friend)..I think more because it didn't learn those very valuable lessons taught by the littermates and the mommy..oops.Nemo answered better, but I have heard of breeders here in my area (different breeds though, no basenjis) that 10 weeks is norm.. I think the longer at the breeders home and in the environment with the littermates the better..
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Thanks.
Good to know. -
breeder..) 10 weeks is more the norm..
I have a friend buy a golden retriver boy from a "breeder".."very nice lady and yes she was a real breeder", my friend said when I questioned it..she got that pup home when it was 5 weeks old…insanity..now, that pup at about 9 months bites everything and everybody.."just for fun" (again, according to my friend)..I think more because it didn't learn those very valuable lessons taught by the littermates and the mommy..You are absolutely correct. Virtually all of the biters I dealt with when I did rescue work and breed education were brought home by their owners at 5-6 weeks of age.
Eight weeks is the "standard" age for more breeds to go to their new homes in the US but most Basenji breeders, including myself, feel it is important to keep them longer especially if there are no other dogs in the household the pup is going to. Another reason for keeping them is the fear period.
http://www.diamondsintheruff.com/DevelopmentalStages.html and scroll down to Fear Imprint Period
_Fear Imprint Period
Experiences a puppy perceives as traumatic during this time are generalized and may affect him all his life. It is a fact that a dog is most likely to develop an avoidance response if subjected to physical or psychological trauma during these four weeks._
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My Petey was between 5 and 6 weeks when he was tied to the tree outside the vet clinic where I worked. He had a horrible case of Parvo, and spent the next 6 weeks in isolation.
He is one of the rare dogs that is both human and dog aggressive, and I am convinced that it all stems form these early times.
He is 9 years old now, and it has been a lifelong struggle with him, and it still is. He requires careful management, medication, and a calm environment. He has no frustration tolerance, and gets overwhelmed very easily. He has no bite inhibition, and has a shark mouth when taking treats, that we have not been able to overcome.
It doesn't help that he is a herding breed (probably cattledog) / terrier (probably JRT) mix, so is very smart, and very game, but I think he would have been a much different dog had he not been removed from the litter so young, and had he been socialized as a pup.
-Nicole
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8 weeks is the minimum age a puppy can be sold in many states. Most breeders prefer to wait until 10-12 weeks old to place their puppies because the extra weeks with their littermates and dam can make a huge difference in bite inhibition and developing appropriate dog language and behavior.
Much about a dog is shaped in those first few weeks of life. It is so critical if you want a well adjusted adult dog to really do your homework when interviewing breeders.
Puppies need an enriched environment with lots of sounds, smell, sight, feels and lots of exposure to people. This needs to continue in their new home but they need to have gotten a good start. Momma dog and other adult dogs in the house are very important in this early process also. They model appropriate behavior for the puppies. If the adults think things are no big deal then the pups learn those things are no big deal. If they are going to home with other adult dogs then they will get continuing education from them but those going to homes where they are giong to be an only dog especially need that foundation.
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Thunderbird - I'm not sure you're right about puppies in the UK tending to go at 8 weeks. In some cases 8 weeks is too young and most responsible breeders only let pups go when they are ready. Not casting aspersions on any body I can assure you. My puppies only go when the bitch has weaned them and sometimes this is later than 8 weeks. I always wait for the dam to indicate when her puppies are ready. This was always the case in the early days and I've followed on with the tradition. My puppies are offered some form of solid food from the beginning but I have never force weaned puppies apart from injuries to the mother.
I did have a bitch who died after birth and in this case their grandmother produced milk for them so even then there was no neeed to early wean them. Vicky's Nakura was one of those puppies.
Skipper, who I'm sure you know, was a singleton and his mother fed him until he was 11 weeks old. Only then did she decide it was time to stop feeding him!!
I strongly feel that being a natural breed Basenjis should be reared as naturally as possible.
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It's really interesting to read this. However, as a dog owner and trainer, who is more than normal interested in animal behavior and dog training, I will never, ever, by a puppy again after 8 weeks unless I know every single thing the breeder has sozialised the puppy with and how. The Socialization period is TOO short to miss.
One of our, in my opinion, best spescialist in dog behavior and problemsolving, Gry L?berg points to a link between age when deliverd to a new home and problems like separation problems (home alone problems). And she also sais that the puppy should be soizialised in that enviorment the puppy is going to live in.
I've seen what not sozialising a puppy with humans before the age of 16 weeks can do to a perfektly normal puppy. My first dog was a standard schnauzer - when the puppies where about 3 weeks old, the breeder fell ill and had to go to the hospital, and she could not go home for a long time. So the pups and their mother was left "for them selves" with one person who cared for them until they where sold as 4 months old. She never accepted strangers - never ever - and even bit a few times. Of course - this is an extreme example.
I know that basenjis are not like every other dog, but I have a wonderfull breeder and feel very safe to take home my boy at the age of 8 weeks. And of course - he is not going to be alone here Kahlo is great with pups.
And I'm really looking forward to see the differense in Kahlo and Kasko and "puppy" biting. Kahlo was 8 weeks and 3 days when I got her, and she has just recently stoped biting me. I could not touch er untill she was 6 months without having her chewing all over me. My little crockodile. :rolleyes: (There are ofcourse more factores than age involved with Kahlo, she had, and still has, severe panosteitt.) So I wonder how not beeing an alone puppy will affect that in Kasko.
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Patty,
i didn't realise that Nakura's Mum had died after the birth, how sad. Its amazing though that Grandma stepped in and fed the Pups.
We were hoping to have our big old Dog Max around to help bring up our Pup but sadly it wasn't meant to be. -
From my personal experience (very limited), I think its best to leave the pup with the breeder beyond 8 weeks. We got our first boy right at 8 weeks, and he was not well socialized. We didn't exactly know what we were doing, and somewhere along the way he became terrified of the crate and we could not crate train him. He wasn't aggressive towards humans; he was very friendly and outgoing with them. However, if you took a special treasure from him (something yummy he dug out of the trash, or, once, a dead mouse he found outside), sometimes he would bite. These were not insurmountable problems, and they were very minor compared to what they could have been, especially if we weren't willing to take the time to learn about the problem and how to retrain him.
Lola came home from the same "breeder" at only 5 1/2 weeks!!!! She does have amazing bite inhibition that I personally taught her, but she can be very possessive & aggressive. I'm retiring her from lure coursing because she can't share. I think had she stayed with her littermates longer, she would not be this way. She probably would have learned to share better. She is not as outgoing as my other girl is with strangers, and she is also terrified of kids. If kids run up to her too quickly she growls very quietly, and since children can not read these signs, they don't know to back off. She has never bitten a kid, but I've never allowed an opportunity where a child could get too close to her without her permission and lots of treats first. I'm sure if she were cornered by a small child she would bite it if she couldn't get away from it.
As to those who say the puppies should be taken to their new homes to be socialized in that environment from early on, I disagree. Callie didn't come home with me until she was 15 months old. Until that time she lived at the breeders, awaiting her forever home. She is the most well-socialized, out-going basenji, and she has never met a stranger. A man at the dog park recently told me he now wants a basenji because she jumped up on the bench next to him for petting & he is convinced all basenjis must be this way (despite Lola giving him the cold shoulder at the same time haha). -
As to those who say the puppies should be taken to their new homes to be socialized in that environment from early on, I disagree. Callie didn't come home with me until she was 15 months old. Until that time she lived at the breeders, awaiting her forever home. She is the most well-socialized, out-going basenji, and she has never met a stranger. A man at the dog park recently told me he now wants a basenji because she jumped up on the bench next to him for petting & he is convinced all basenjis must be this way (despite Lola giving him the cold shoulder at the same time haha).
I have had one rescue dog (rough collie), and one dog on breeding terms (cavalier) - both came to me at the age of 14 months old.
The collie I had lived on a farm, either chained outside the house or in crate inside the hall, never been innside the house or sosialized. He was a very streetsmart dog, and had a lovley temperament. He was really great - a dog against all ods! However - it took me 6 months to rehabilitate him into being just a dog. He could not be taken on long walks in the start, his body wasn't up to it, and his head could not handle all the impressions. He was under weight, had never been loos in the house, didn't dare to do his "thing" outside of my garden, he was terrified of trains, cars, everything that moved. I gave him 3 months to prove to me that he could do better - and within 6 months he was "perfect". Something he never could have been if his genes wasn't on his side. Too bad I lost him only 4 years old due to autoimmune illness.
So of course - some dogs can handle everything - absolutly. See the same thing with a houndmix (10 months old) I got from rescue 1,5 years ago and gave to my brother - he had lived with a single mom with 3chlidren under 5 years and was sky high with stress - but he is genlte and kind as the day is long. I would liked to keep him for my self, but I was 14 days from getting Kahlo and could not work with him, and a new puppy at the same time. So I thought my brother som stress mastering training - and Truls is now doing greate! (So is my brother - who has no dog training educationg or experiense befor he got Truls. I'm just SO proud of them both.)
My cavalier, a female I got straight from the breeder at 14 months old, she was too active to just be "one of 10 dogs" and needed something more in her life to be happy, so she came to me. She had never been trained in anything exept from show, and only knew that her name was Rikke. However, she had been with the breeder everywhere and was perfeckt sozialsed. And she was the cutest dog you can imagine - even when she got sick (Syringomyelia) and was in constant pain, she never got grumpy - ever! I could do whatever I wanted with her, and she would follow me everywhere. If any breeder could give me a dog like that again, I would love to let them keep the pup after 8 weeks. But, some of her other dogs, who have had the same sozialising and "childhood" as my Rikke, was shy and nervous - why? Because not every dog is the same.
Because every dog is uniq I want to do the sosializing between 8 and 12 weeks. I need a dog that I can take with me every where - on busses, trains, at my work, on plains when I need to visit my family on the other side of the contry. So I know what I need my dogs to handle - and no - I dont think that an avrage breeder (in norway) has the chance to give 4 or more puppies everything they need in sozialising, alone, in those 4 weeks. I don't know about breeders in the UK or US, in norway breeders ofthen have a regulare job, and just breeds a litter or two a year and combines hollidays with the puppies arival so that they can stay home as much as possible with the pups to give them what they need.
And no, I don't think puppies learns to share if they live togheter more than 8 weeks, if allowed they learn that they must protect what they've got, or else some one will steal it. You snooze you loose.
I got my brussels griffon at 12 weeks, and the breeder had done a wonderfull job with her - the only thing "wrong" was seperation problems, though I don't know if that came of the age or illness (she also had syringomyelia and had to be put to sleep only 1 year old.
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