Looking for red and white male

@lvoss:

IThe dogs deserve good homes but by cleaning up after the mess of others so they do not have to take responsibility for their actions only perpetuates a cycle where animals will continue to end up in this situation.

I almost used the phrase "cleaning up" in my post because I really do think it's the best descriptor. And I really like the idea of sending a letter to irresponsible breeders asking for a donation to rehome their dogs….

Houston

I agree with what has been stated, I too feel as if it is a major catch 22, if we have rescues the BYB's and the likes have somewhere for their dogs to goi.e get dumped, not good, but on the flipside, rescue is good for the times when somebody passes away or gets sick and can't take care of the pets anymore, or whatever have you.
It is a shame I think that rescue organizations take dogs from BYB's and puppy mills over and over again..I wish there was a way to stop that from happening, but I don't know how to get that to happen. By helping them out we are not stopping it, we are doing just that, helping them out..

By the way, my feelings were hurt on a foster type level, nothing personal what so ever..

Lots have been said on this thread that is good and depends on how you take it bad. After all has been said and done lets hope this guy finds his B and it has a good forever loving home. I wish all B's for that matter all dogs had forever homes people would just stop and think. It is BYB'S but also people I want today and I rid the next day those people are so also much of the problem.

Rita Jean

@lvoss:

I won't yell at you. It has been said here before, rescue is a catch 22. The dogs deserve good homes but by cleaning up after the mess of others so they do not have to take responsibility for their actions only perpetuates a cycle where animals will continue to end up in this situation.

Education is key to breaking the cycle. The fewer people who purchase BYB/puppymill dogs the less will be produced because they can not be sold. I also think rescue organizations should send a letter to the breeders when known asking them for donation to pay for the expenses to rehome their dogs. When BCONC was still able to do rescue, we did that and it did have an impact when a person keeps getting those letters in the mail, not on everyone but on some.

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I totally agree with you. When we discussed our next pet my wife suggested maybe we go to the pound and save a life rather than buy a dog from a breeder. Trust me, if I thought taking a dog from a pound would make an impact on irresponsible BYBs, I would do it in a heartbeat. But the reality is that buying dogs from pet stores and continually saving pound puppies only perpetuates this ugly cycle.

While I believe in full disclosure, I also think that its not right to deny any animal a good home. While I do not know first hand, if Brat is participating in educating people who adopt Basenji's about Fanconi or the possibility of it, then they are at least doing something positive. Neutering these animals prior to their adoption does help control the spread of Fanconi as well as other undesirable traits. Rescue work takes a lot of time and effort and I am sure there is a lot that goes on behind the scenes we never know about. It is no fun to see a dog that has been starved, neglected, and abused. Its worse when there are noticeable issues, such as ear mites, rashes from ticks or fleas, and worse yet possible injuries or broken bones. It is very hard not to let your heart go out to these dogs. Once they start to recover, it also takes some special consideration by foster care and adopters to take into consideration what these animals have gone through and how it might affect their behavior.

With that being said not all Baseji's that go to rescue have any of the issues mentioned above. As you know some people just change their mind about owning a dog 2 years down the road and decide the dog needs to go because it's cramps their lifestyles, ties them down so they cannot travel, or just takes too much and effort for them to deal with. Of course this is not the fault of the dog. Yes there are breeders that will take them back, but as you know there are breeders that will not as well.

I personally do not blame anyone who would seek out a responsible breeder to adopt an older dog. Its a much safer bet and those dogs need homes too. I am a little disturbed but the terms used Show Dog flunk out because that also reflects back on breeders and handlers as much as it does the dog. There are people that show that have bought their dogs somewhere other than a responsible breeder. Even puppy mills and back yard breeders can sell AKC registered dogs, and if they are AKC registered they can be entered and shown.

So I do not think its fair to fault someone who wishes to limit their risk when considering the adoption of a Basenji. While Brat is a viable option for adoption, its not the only way to responsibly get a pet or provide a good home for an animal in need.

Jason

@ComicDom1:

I am a little disturbed but the terms used Show Dog flunk out because that also reflects back on breeders and handlers as much as it does the dog. There are people that show that have bought their dogs somewhere other than a responsible breeder. Even puppy mills and back yard breeders can sell AKC registered dogs, and if they are AKC registered they can be entered and shown.

Jason

Not all dogs like the show ring, it doesn't necessarily reflect poorly on anyone or the dog if they "flunk". It just might not suit their personality. I know several dogs that didn't like the show ring and are perfectly happy doing other things.

Without words being taken out of context or playing semantics here, I just was simply objecting to the implication that a dog flunked period. Yes I agree there are dogs that simply do not work out for the show ring. I also agree that there are dogs that are trained in agility that can be trained very well, but it when it comes time for competition, they just get too distracted. It does not mean the dog flunked. It just means it was not for them. Did they flunk? Not in my opinion. If someone decides to stop showing a dog, it does not mean they flunked either. What it could mean is, that this particular dog when compared to the others being shown was not noticeably better. Or maybe it the dog was not shown as well as it could have been because of the inexperience of a handler. Of course there are various other reasons as well. None of these reasons mean a dog had flunked. At least not in my opinion.

If a woman does not win the Miss USA, or Miss Universe contest does it mean she flunked? of does it mean that the judges just thought someone was better at the moment?

Jason

While I think that people should look for a pup or adult with whatever they are comfortable with… my only complaint with BRAT is the DNA test for Fanconi... while I understand that if the test is "Affected" this can or would be a deciding factor for a person looking to adopt... I believe it is unfair not to do everything possible to disclose...

If BRAT did test for Fanconi and they were affected I think it would be better to tell a person first. The dog may not get a home but the way I see it the dog that gets a home and has this when they get sick may loose there home anyway. What a time to loose your home older and sick and unwanted because the owner was not told first.

Rita Jean

I just adopted my foster girl from BRAT and they do send info about Fanconi. There is also info on the website and a blurb if the dog has been strip tested on the dogs webpage. Although that may not be the best thing to do, it does inform the adopters what has been done. On the info that BRAT sends out to adopters it also expalins that they do not do the DNA test but it is available and where to get info about it.

The DNA cost may not seem much to some, but for a group that is already struggling with a large number of rescues, it really adds up. I am sure they would love to be able to do it for all the dogs. There are people that are willing to take Fanconi affected dogs. Unfortunately, IMO the cost is just too high right now.

Thank you for the information Jennifer as I did not know that BRAT had and sent the info. Yes true cost would be way up there if every dog was tested. If people are told then they can at least get the dog tested as be no different then person getting a puppies not been tested and they never test either.

Rita Jean

I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I do not think it is responsible to NOT do the DNA test before a Rescue is placed. Regardless if they pass on the information, by the time a person would do the test, 99% of the time there is an emotional attachment (and I am sure that is what many are counting on) that they will just keep the dog and hope for the best. I think that is wrong. Again, my opinion

I will say the DNA yes would be excellent but the cost how would they ever cover it?

Rita Jean

@Rita:

I will say the DNA yes would be excellent but the cost how would they ever cover it?

Rita Jean

IMO, there are a number of things they could do, first many of the dogs that are give up to rescue are not strays or from a shelter… when someone needs/wants to give up a dog to BRAT, they BRAT should attempt to collect the 65.00 needed to do the DNA test from that person. Many people would do that IMO... and if you don't ask you don't know. That is just one solution... and in the end, isn't it about the dog, not the money?

@tanza:

IMO, there are a number of things they could do, first many of the dogs that are give up to rescue are not strays or from a shelter… when someone needs/wants to give up a dog to BRAT, they BRAT should attempt to collect the 65.00 needed to do the DNA test from that person. Many people would do that IMO... and if you don't ask you don't know. That is just one solution... and in the end, isn't it about the dog, not the money?

We do ask for a surrender fee. I am not sure what the percentage of compliance is but I know in the ones I have removed from homes )2 of the 6-7 that I transported/fostered) they did not have the money. It is still not enough.

I think some people are missing the point of rescue.

While I am not an expert, I do qualify as a Basenji lover for the last 17 years. That makes me an expert in Basenji love!:)

Would I still have adopted Hunter if he had fanconi? Absolutely. Is there a chance that my otherwise healthy 1 1/2 year old pup could test positive down the road? Absolutley again. Could I buy a basenji from a breeder and have it test positive down the road? I'm pretty sure there is a small percentage. Could my 7 year old that I got from someone placing an ad in the paper (gasp) :eek:test positive? Absolutely.

I adopted to give a dog a home. Healthy or not, I showed unconditional love.

There are no guarantees in life, any life. When you love, you know you will have your heartbroken. It is part of the cirlcle of life. Fanconi or not, does it really matter in the big picture?

Vicki,

I am willing to bet that for many people who have had to live through the heartbreak of losing a Basenji to this awful disease it most definitely DOES matter.

I understand your point, you take your chances, and that's your choice. Some people do not have it in them to go through that kind of hell.

Better for that person to know that and head it off at the pass.

Does it really matter to some yes and some no. Like people have no kids and then they have a baby and get "rid" of the dog. Was that unconditional love? I just watched a video clip were a boy "human" was adopted and months down the road they gave him back. Your correct there are no guarantees in life but do some people really know what love means?

Rita Jean

@vickilb:

I think some people are missing the point of rescue.

While I am not an expert, I do qualify as a Basenji lover for the last 17 years. That makes me an expert in Basenji love!:)

Would I still have adopted Hunter if he had fanconi? Absolutely. Is there a chance that my otherwise healthy 1 1/2 year old pup could test positive down the road? Absolutley again. Could I buy a basenji from a breeder and have it test positive down the road? I'm pretty sure there is a small percentage. Could my 7 year old that I got from someone placing an ad in the paper (gasp) :eek:test positive? Absolutely.

I adopted to give a dog a home. Healthy or not, I showed unconditional love.

There are no guarantees in life, any life. When you love, you know you will have your heartbroken. It is part of the cirlcle of life. Fanconi or not, does it really matter in the big picture?

That's how I feel about rescue. I know when I rescue I give a dog a safe loving forever home and I'll take the bad with the good. Rescue isn't easy because of all the quirks and baggage that comes along with an animal - but I wouldn't have it any other way. I have six dogs and love them all….believe me they aren't perfect, but either am I.

@tanza:

IMO, there are a number of things they could do, first many of the dogs that are give up to rescue are not strays or from a shelter… when someone needs/wants to give up a dog to BRAT, they BRAT should attempt to collect the 65.00 needed to do the DNA test from that person. Many people would do that IMO... and if you don't ask you don't know. That is just one solution... and in the end, isn't it about the dog, not the money?

Pat, I don't know much about this issue….but my original thought about why BRAT is not testing for Fanconi, is more of an ethical issue, than a monetary one. If they test the dogs for Fanconi before they adopt them out, then what happens to the ones that test probable affected? 99% of those dogs aren't going to be adopted, then what? Euthanize a perfectly healthy (at the moment) dog? Stick the foster families with dogs that aren't going to be adoptable, because since they have bonded with them euthanasia is no longer acceptable? Have the family that is surrendering the dog test it first, and then refuse to accept dogs that are probably affected? That doesn't help the dogs at all. Although it does seem strange...it kind of seems like the best decision is not to test, let the adopting family test if they choose....then if they can make the choice whether they want to return the dog, euthanize it, or keep and treat it.

That is a reality that every adopting family has to face. Maybe in the future all breeders responsible and irresponsible will have cleared their stock of Fanconi, and the risk won't be so great in adoption...but for now, I don't really see how BRAT or any other rescue can do it any differently.

Just my thoughts on a rainy Friday morning....

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