One other note about chest 'dropping' (and why did dog people start using that term - it sort of conjurs up visions of dog parts falling off in the yard) One the the biggest problems in basenjis fronts right now is those that are too narrow and have a concave area between the front legs. I'm NOT advocating a front like a bull terrier but there needs to be some 'fill' there to have a good front but it's not the fill it is the actual structure of the bones in the shoulder and upper arm that - if not correct- actally pull the 'front' too far forward. A quick visual scan from the side - if the deepest part of the brisket is well behind the legs - the front is too far forward. We need to pay attention to the actual shoulder structure to make sure we are not continuing to double up on dogs with a short upper arm. That limits front reach, and creates a not efficient side gait. So go catch your dogs and do a quick check - measure from the top of the wither to the point of shoulder (the most prominant bone in the chest.) then from that point to the point of the elbow. They should be the same. if they are not - stand up your dog and put your hand between the front legs - if you hand is IN FRONT OF THE FRONT LEGS - great - if your hand is between the front legs the front on your dog is too far foward.
More than you ever wanted to know probably - LOL
Offspring's Fanconi Results Question
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Can someone please tell me what the expected results of Fanconi tests on puppies born to TWO affected parents would be?? Could there be CARRIERS as well as AFFECTED??
Also, what combination of results on parents would produce Clear, Carrier AND Affected puppies in the same litter?? Would one parent have to be affected and the other clear??
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Can someone please tell me what the expected results of Fanconi tests on puppies born to TWO affected parents would be?? Could there be CARRIERS as well as AFFECTED??
Also, what combination of results on parents would produce Clear, Carrier AND Affected puppies in the same litter?? Would one parent have to be affected and the other clear??
Breeding 2 affected would produce all affected.
I think if you breed 2 carriers together you could get clear,carrier and affecteds.
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Breeding 2 affected would produce all affected.
I think if you breed 2 carriers together you could get clear,carrier and affecteds.
I think that's correct.
A clear x affected gives all carriers. -
Go check out this page:
http://khanisbasenjis.com/fanconi.htmlMake sure you view health test results for both parents… it is of the utmost importance.
You truly do not want to spend your life with a fanconi affected if you do not have to. -
I didn't realise you could get a clear from breeding 2 carriers. I thought they would be all carriers or affected.
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My "MO" Khani's Causing A ComMOtion is from two carriers.
And "Max" CH Khani's MAdman Across Th Watr is also from two carriers.I was shocked when both came out clear.. figured my luck would give me more affecteds!
The probability is higher for them to end up carriers, when from two carriers.
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Can someone please tell me what the expected results of Fanconi tests on puppies born to TWO affected parents would be?? Could there be CARRIERS as well as AFFECTED??
Also, what combination of results on parents would produce Clear, Carrier AND Affected puppies in the same litter?? Would one parent have to be affected and the other clear??
Affected to Affected = All Affected - Should never be done
Affected to Carrier = 50% chance of Affected - Should never be done
Carrier to Carrier = 25% chance of Affected - Should never be done, as there is never a good reason to have a chance of an AffectedClear to Affected = All Carriers, this is an acceptable breeding (provide the breeder is responsible in placement of the pups so that they are not bred to Carriers/Affected)
Here is another link explaining.
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Affected to Affected = All Affected - Should never be done
Affected to Carrier = 50% chance of Affected - Should never be done
Carrier to Carrier = 25% chance of Affected - Should never be done, as there is never a good reason to have a chance of an AffectedClear to Affected = All Carriers, this is an acceptable breeding (provide the breeder is responsible in placement of the pups so that they are not bred to Carriers/Affected)
Here is another link explaining.
That's a great link. Thanks. I'm not great at understanding genetics but that has made it nice and clear. My own Fanconi results should be back in a couple of weeks. (Fingers Crossed)
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I will keep my fingers croosed for a great answer…
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I find all of this fanconi stuff fascinating, and confusing!
Maya is from 2 CLEAR parents but i was advised by people on here to have her tested anyway (breeder advised that too) just to be sure, but in theory she should be clear… Correct...??
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Maya, that is what I understand as well. Two clears can only produce clear BUT I will have my boy Otis tested too, even though he came from two clears..
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In theory yes, she should be clear. But if she were mine I would still have her tested.
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I find all of this fanconi stuff fascinating, and confusing!
Maya is from 2 CLEAR parents but i was advised by people on here to have her tested anyway (breeder advised that too) just to be sure, but in theory she should be clear… Correct...??
Yes that is correct, she should be clear in theory… but again, I agree since there is no clear by parentage... it would be good to have her tested. Not only that, as many of us have said before... it is good to have as many tested and in the data base as we can. It validates the test and the test results no matter what the results since this is a linkage test and not the final direct test.
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She should be clear but it is best to test anyway. Mutation can happen or in a few cases they have found a dog to have had an erroneous test result when an offspring result has come back incompatible with the parent results.
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And they have also had results that are erroneous compared to the sire and dam… in at least one of those cases, it was found that the sire and dam could not be the parents of that offspring. (DNA for parentage with AKC)
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I think there have been very few of those "off" results.. and I don't think it is fair to count the "off" ones [i.e., like Medjai's parents] when you can't trust that the breeder tested the dogs said to be tested [which obviously isn't true since we know that Medjai is affected].
We have a bitch that "tested" as a Carrier.
We will admit we weren't strip-testing… our mistake.
Her coat recently was going to crap.. so we took her in for a thyroid panel.. which was low..and a urinalysis was done also as Mom thought she had a UTI.
Unfortunately she did not.. she was spilling sugar.
Mistakes happen, so I am not upset about that...
I am actually thankful that the results we got were not "clear" and her have been a carrier [and had been bred to a Carrier – that would have totally sucked].
The boy she was bred to is a Clear, so all pups were Carriers [one IND, which we know isn't a possibility now that we know she is Affected].If you have a dog that you aren't breeding, I don't see a hurry to get the test done if they are from TWO clear parents. Or even from a CLEAR/IND or CLEAR/CARRIER breeding.
I do plan to get my OFA number for all my clears before they are bred, as I want 'written proof' that I have had the testing done.
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It is true that the number of mistakes has been few but one of the ways they have been caught is because there was multi-generational testing. My mom is another who got back inconsistent results. After backtracking it was determined that at some point his sample was switched with another dog's sample so all dogs in that set were resampled.
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I would have rather had her results…
my sweet Funny is spilling and thin and we hope the best for her. -
I am sorry about Funny. I really hope that we have a direct gene test soon.
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I pray that the direct test will soon be developed so that all breeders and owners can be satisfied and possibly Fanconi will be eventually eliminated.
Theoretically I believe, Fanconi could crop up at any time as it is a mutant gene so I assume it would be best to check all Basenjis if they are to be bred from. Ivoss, is this correct ?
Khanis - I am so sorry to hear about Funny - you must be devastated - I feel for you.
