@zande and Jengosmonkey... I did send an email and asked about this pup, never got a response... most likely because I asked about health testing and pedigree... or that they did sell the pup. And Zande, you are correct.... across the pond, they are called puppy farmers...here puppy mills and/or back yard breeders (in it for the money)
For Sale/Waiting List Post Rules: Read First
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… the buyer needs to take responsibility for their actions..
Absolutely, but they don't and the dogs may end up in rescue or euthanized which I thought was the point of trying to get them to see as much info as possible prior to making the decision to buy from a pet store or puppyfind. Correct me if I am wrong.
A buyers guide is an excellent idea! Someone can call and then get info that they can read later about what they need to look for so they can ask the right questions.
I also think it is a good idea to advertise on puppyfind.
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Yes it is a good idea for outreach…. but of course someone has to help do the work.... we have not have must support, still trying to get the FAQ's. We have posted on many of the web sites BCOA information for contact about puppies... One problem is a place like puppyfind.com has so many listings.. it is a bit difficult to compete... my personal opinion is that all responsible breeders need to flood those sites... with ads...
Sorry for the post to the Forum on this, as it might not make sense to many of you, but the Basenji Club of America has an Outreach committee to help educate people on Basenjis....
Sorry, Pat…hanging head as an ashamed member of the outreach committee who hasn't yet had a chance to deal with the FAQs. The email kind of fell of my radar, but I will go back and deal with it.
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I'm sorry if I was confusing. The issue with euthanasia, rescue etc is a big problem and educating buyers is critical. I think we would all agree on that.
I am trying to figure out why someone (myself included) would buy from pet stores or puppyfind instead of going to a breeder. I believe it is convenience. So, for the potential buyer who decides to do some research elsewhere that is where I think the breeder can help. Had the breeder I contacted explained something as opposed to just saying-no, I don't have any puppies. Or even the rescue saying the same thing. (I had not heard of BRAT) I probably would have been in a different situation. I didn't know what questions to ask and I personally was bombarded by all the info online. Maybe that is just me but you asked for input from the learning side and I am definatley that.
I shouldn't put the entire burden of education on you, the breeder, that is simply not fair. So I aplogize.
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I'm sorry if I was confusing. The issue with euthanasia, rescue etc is a big problem and educating buyers is critical. I think we would all agree on that.
I am trying to figure out why someone (myself included) would buy from pet stores or puppyfind instead of going to a breeder. I believe it is convenience. So, for the potential buyer who decides to do some research elsewhere that is where I think the breeder can help. Had the breeder I contacted explained something as opposed to just saying-no, I don't have any puppies. Or even the rescue saying the same thing. (I had not heard of BRAT) I probably would have been in a different situation. I didn't know what questions to ask and I personally was bombarded by all the info online. Maybe that is just me but you asked for input from the learning side and I am definatley that.
I shouldn't put the entire burden of education on you, the breeder, that is simply not fair. So I aplogize.
Totally no reason to apologize at all….. I think that the reason that people go to pet stores is because that is how it was done for years and years... same with buying a puppy out of the newspaper. Difference now is that is lots of information on how and why to buy a puppy/companion on the web and easier to find responsible breeders "IF" you are willing to learn first and understand why they ask questions..ggg... and WHY you as the buyer should ask questions... Also I agree there is lots of conflicting information even on line.. that is why people need to take their time... I always recommend that people personally visit with someone that has Basenjis regardless of where they intend to buy. Lisa and I always "swap" people for visits... and because we don't breed often, 99% of the time the people visiting have no expectations of getting a puppy from us, so there is no pressure... just a learning experience.
As far as pet store and even newspaper ads.. I think it is "impluse" buying... I see a cute puppy, I want that cute puppy.... -
Please could you tell me why you do not allow posts in your 'For Sale' forum from outside the US/Canada.
Thanks. -
Hi,
am i correct in thinking that members from other countries cannot inform us if they have Puppies for sale. There are quite a few nationalities on the forum and it seems a shame.
I myself would like eventualy to find a Pup and it would be most helpful to know when litters are planned.
I think that it is a great idea to make people more aware of Dogs needing to be rescued but again maybe UK rescues and rescues in other countries wouldnt be able to use the forum.
I hope you dont think i'm being rude, i love this forum and am just saying whats on my mind. -
If a breeder and or a back yard breeder would all do there job correctly in breeding then the pet store would get a good puppy. Then the new owner would not have to worry.
Like when you buy a new car that has been out in model year for 3 or 4 months DO ANY OF YOU ever ask questions has this car had recalls and how many and what were they? Did you do your homework.
I said this once any place a puppy is bought from or gotten from free or what ever there needs to be a sheet handed to them. On it needs to be problems known and testing, food used what ever. There should be some kind of fines if they do not give this to you. AKC could send sheet about dogs when they send there paperwork. Has anyone ever ask them?
Rita Jean
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Rita Jean wrote…-If a breeder and or a back yard breeder would all do there job correctly in breeding then the pet store would get a good puppy. Then the new owner would not have to worry.
Rita Jean, only puppymills and bad byb sell to pet stores.
Until they are shut down, these poor breeding dogs willl be used until they are warn out and then discarded...
A quality breeder would NEVER sell to a pet store...ever!
I am not trying to be sharp..but quality breeders should never be grouped with byb or puppymillers.. -
@Rita:
AKC could send sheet about dogs when they send there paperwork. Has anyone ever ask them?
Rita Jean
They already do. When I got Liyah's registration papers from the AKC, there was a basenji breed information flyer (Congratulations on Your New Basenji) from the BCOA included in the package. It covers history, care/exercise/training, personality, and health concerns (including Fanconi & the linked marker test).
I got the same sheet when Ruby's registration was changed so I am her owner…that was 1.5 years ago.
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Excuse me I would not know what the AKC did with a flyer I just got around last Friday to mailing Jaycee's into AKC.
Now if people get this information and do not go back to the store or breeder or follow through on the testing then that is another issue.
So you need to find away to be able to do something to pet stores get them more or less shut down and then it will stop some of the bad things. As I have always been told in my life talk is cheap. Answer me this in all years you have been saying this that is bad
breeding and so called breeders what have you done or really tried to do to stop this or make it better?????How many have you rescued be a B or another dog? How many times have you went out and helped with groups? How much do you yourself really get in and do something other than talk about it ???
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@Rita:
Excuse me I would not know what the AKC did with a flyer I just got around last Friday to mailing Jaycee's into AKC.
Now if people get this information and do not go back to the store or breeder or follow through on the testing then that is another issue.
So you need to find away to be able to do something to pet stores get them more or less shut down and then it will stop some of the bad things. As I have always been told in my life talk is cheap. Answer me this in all years you have been saying this that is bad
breeding and so called breeders what have you done or really tried to do to stop this or make it better?????How many have you rescued be a B or another dog? How many times have you went out and helped with groups? How much do you yourself really get in and do something other than talk about it ???
:eek: Wow! Who are you addressing in this post? Lots of us have done all kinds of outreach, rescue, education…I don't think you really know any of us well enough to know to what extent we have helped vs. talked.....
All of the regular breeder-posters here have done rescue, contacted our politicians about dog laws, provided support and advice to folks who have purchased puppy mill dogs, provided monetary support for puppy mill rescue situations...
There are several people who post here regularly who are VERY involved in rescue....
I am not sure why you are so angry at other posters?
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I got my papers the other day, the ones from BCOA, when I received Otis' AKC papers.
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Please could you tell me why you do not allow posts in your 'For Sale' forum from outside the US/Canada.
Thanks.This is the most recent post that brought this thread to the surface again…I didn't want it to get lost, because I think it is a good question; particularly since we have more and more Basenji people from Europe.
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I did not say just breeders what I said was breeders AND OR backyard breeders would do there job when people get there puppy they would not have to worry. With having been said what some of you may seem to think are backyard breeders might be yes but no one is 100 % correct all of the time. So to tell me that 100% of the time that pet stores ONLY EVER get puppies for backyard breeder. Now should one of those puppies come from a good breeder but bought at store and there is something wrong with it ANSWER this 100 % your sure they would own up to it.
It's not Just backyard breeders and I HATE them more than most but I have done my share on rescue and still our family does there share on rescue mostly akita's but done pom's and rott's.
I am not angry at any poster way sharronhurlbut came back. No one is perfect and there are all walks of life. I wish all aniamls never had health problems and every body could tell the TRUTH but we all know what a wish is.
Rita Jean
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@Rita:
I did not say just breeders what I said was breeders AND OR backyard breeders would do there job when people get there puppy they would not have to worry. With having been said what some of you may seem to think are backyard breeders might be yes but no one is 100 % correct all of the time. So to tell me that 100% of the time that pet stores ONLY EVER get puppies for backyard breeder. Now should one of those puppies come from a good breeder but bought at store and there is something wrong with it ANSWER this 100 % your sure they would own up to it.
It's not Just backyard breeders and I HATE them more than most but I have done my share on rescue and still our family does there share on rescue mostly akita's but done pom's and rott's.
I am not angry at any poster way sharronhurlbut came back. No one is perfect and there are all walks of life. I wish all aniamls never had health problems and every body could tell the TRUTH but we all know what a wish is.
Rita Jean
Pet stores get puppies from puppy brokers who get them from puppy mills, with the sometimes Mom/Pop pet store might get them from a Backyard Breeder. I can say without a doubt that there is no "Basenji" the comes from a responsible breeder that has ever sold a puppy to a pet store. If they did, they are no longer a responsible breeder, period. And I will stand a support that statement to anyone, anytime.
And pet stores are a small part of the problem now days… most of the BYB's are selling over the internet, they don't need that 3rd party outlet... takes away from the profit.
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Pat I understand but it seems and I say again seems like to some on here that there are only certain breeders that are any good and eveyone else is nothing. I can tell you were I got my first akita was a breeder and yes some went to brokers and stores. I was at the breeder and I can only hope and wish that some day I have a home that is as clean as her kennel. You did not even go in without cover over your head and covers on your shoes. Now tell me because she sold to brokers or stores is she no longer any good.
So just maybe and I say maybe if more responsible breeders help not sold help pet stores maybe can stop a little of the problems. Are you saying that any one that sells over the internet is no good?
Example person get's two B's and in a year or two has puppies. Has done the Fanconi and what ever test they can do for there age and test the puppies tells new owner all they know and can they are no good. They are not really big breeder but still breeder they are no good is this what you are saying.
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@Rita:
Pat I understand but it seems and I say again seems like to some on here that there are only certain breeders that are any good and eveyone else is nothing. I can tell you were I got my first akita was a breeder and yes some went to brokers and stores. I was at the breeder and I can only hope and wish that some day I have a home that is as clean as her kennel. You did not even go in without cover over your head and covers on your shoes. Now tell me because she sold to brokers or stores is she no longer any good.
So just maybe and I say maybe if more responsible breeders help not sold help pet stores maybe can stop a little of the problems. Are you saying that any one that sells over the internet is no good?
Example person get's two B's and in a year or two has puppies. Has done the Fanconi and what ever test they can do for there age and test the puppies tells new owner all they know and can they are no good. They are not really big breeder but still breeder they are no good is this what you are saying.
Sorry… there is no responsible breeder that would place puppies in a pet store... no way .... sorry... and I am saying that 90% of people that sell over the internet are NOT responsible breeder.. there are a few breeders that put ads on the internet to try and go against the BYB's..... and hope that they read, learn, understand how to find a responsible breeder.... and honestly.. if they are responsible ... they don't need to put puppies on the internet.. they have reservations list for any litters they are planning.
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A responsible breeder by definition is responsible for the puppies they produce for their entire lives that means taking on the responsibility of screening homes and taking back those pups at any age for any reason for their entire lives. The minute a person sells a puppy to a broker or pet store they can no longer meet this definition. They have no idea where that puppy will end up nor do they care.
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Please could you tell me why you do not allow posts in your 'For Sale' forum from outside the US/Canada.
Thanks.Good point Andrea… let's keep the question of the day at the forefront so hopefully an answer can be presented.
