@eeeefarm If it is a breeding trend, we are getting far too far away from the standard.
Basenjis and cats – Prey or Friends?
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I'm afraid that I've made a major mistake in choosing Honey (only due to the cats). Today we had a good session on the back patio with the cats freely walking around the back yard and Honey (leashed) lying down "looking" more relaxed than when we started last week (she was standing and pulling towards the cats to start with), but after a car ride to PetsMart, we were out in the front yard talking with a neighbor and one of the cats came up very close. I had a good grip on the leash, but released the tension to allow some contact if friendly - the cat was ready to give her a head butt, but Honey made a darting motion with her mouth towards the cat (as she has done before). I asked the neighbor what she saw, and she said that she saw no teeth, but a definite snap/grab towards the cat. She and her husband kept some hunting dogs in Germany, and she believes that Honey shows definite "passion" for hunting.
I am willing to pay for a behaviorist to work with us but my goal would not be having the dog/cats living in separate sections of the house. I feel strongly that the animals who were here first deserve to retain their home privileges and that it is my duty to make it possible for them to have free run of their home WITH the dog or WITHOUT the dog. If Honey had been here first, I'd feel the same about protecting her sense of wellbeing in her own home.
I think Honey would get adopted again if I took her back to the shelter, but I hate to put her thru all that again. I may look for a rescue that would let me act as foster parent for her while they look for a suitable home for her (don't know if any would do that, but it makes sense to me). I feel like a traitor to even think about this, but I'd feel worse if she maimed or killed one of the cats.
I guess I'll start with my vet - he said he could recommend a behaviorist; I can at least see what their evaluation recommends…
Honey has learned to "sit & wait" for permission to approach her food dish after it's put on the floor, and will sit and wait before going out the door for our walks (although that requires a food reward usually). She is better about letting me go into another room behind a closed door and doesn't bark/whine right away. I was proud of her accomplishments so far, but the most important thing for her to learn may be more than her instincts will allow…
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Okay, deep breath here. Breathe in… breathe out. Alright, now that we've got that out of the way...
You say you just adopted Honey… so give her a little bit of time to relax into the home. Yes, the cats will be put off (they were once worshiped as gods and have never forgiven humanity for dethroning them), but in time, Honey will relax and the cats will too. Or they will feign indifference and you'll catch them boxing with each other...or worse... sleeping together!
It takes time… but patience and calmness (as well as giving each critter its own "safe place") will win the day. Even after living together 3 years, Rock & Ron still love to harass each other and play "chase" and "guess where I'm hiding before I beat you senseless"... Honey will come round. Channel the energy into playing ball or with a toy when ever she starts to get excited about the cats. I'm not an expert trainer, but it worked with my crew.
Best of luck!
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I have 7 cats and 2 basenjis right now. In the past I had a basenji, a mixed breed and a few cats and they all got along fine. I brought kittens into the house when my two dogs were old and they slept with the basenji. He was pretty quiet by then and he never had a strong prey drive.
The crew I have now is pretty interesting. Two of my cats really love to play with my bboy. My female can get a little rough sometimes. Some of the cats would rather not play that way, but I have a gate at the top of the stairs so the cats can slip through if they want to get away. I had a cat tree for a while, also, so the cats could escape if they wanted to.
I have always had dogs and cats at the same time and never before have I seen a dog that my cats could not train. All my cats trained my puppies by simply smacking/scatching them if the puppies/dogs came near them. That's how they learned to respect the cats. The basenjis are another story. The cats are just too much fun to chew on to let any scratching stop them. And I've noticed they go after some cats more than others. All in play, but the cats that aren't afraid of them have much less trouble - or maybe they simply think it's fun to be chewed on! If things get too rough, the cats will go under the couch and play with the dog from there (they play mostly with my bboy.)
Good luck, and I think you'll find that a behaviorist can be a big help.
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Okay, deep breath here. Breathe in… breathe out. Alright, now that we've got that out of the way...
...Yes, the cats will be put off (they were once worshiped as gods and have never forgiven humanity for dethroning them)...
Thanks for that – after reading some of the "Basenji aggression" posts here, it was good to laugh AND take a deep breath!It takes time… but patience and calmness (as well as giving each critter its own "safe place") will win the day. Even after living together 3 years, Rock & Ron still love to harass each other and play "chase" and "guess where I'm hiding before I beat you senseless"... Honey will come round. Channel the energy into playing ball or with a toy when ever she starts to get excited about the cats. ...
That is what I have been doing, and will continue with the behaviorist. I've had dogs and cats together all my life, even when I was growing up. Some of the posts about Basenji "prey drive" and "hunting instincts" added to her behavior with the cats has me worried that this particular mix of animals doesn't always work out well – for the cats.
Thanks for the encouragement and the photos of your crew being congenial together. If I knew exactly what would happen if I let Honey t-o-u-c-h one of the cats, I would have my answer, but I still can't tell whether she is "just boinking them with her nose" or "preparing for a kill"!… I have always had dogs and cats at the same time and never before have I seen a dog that my cats could not train. All my cats trained my puppies by simply smacking/scatching them if the puppies/dogs came near them. That's how they learned to respect the cats. The basenjis are another story. The cats are just too much fun to chew on to let any scratching stop them. And I've noticed they go after some cats more than others. All in play, but the cats that aren't afraid of them have much less trouble - or maybe they simply think it's fun to be chewed on! If things get too rough, the cats will go under the couch and play with the dog from there (they play mostly with my bboy.)
Good luck, and I think you'll find that a behaviorist can be a big help.
Thanks! I got 2 names from my vet and have contacted one so far, and will call the second on Monday. If Honey will "only" play with the cats, my worst fears would be over – then there's the fears about what happens to the house during the dog/cat chase - but that's a minor issue compared to my fears of mangled/dead cats. At least now I have more stories about Basenji/cats living together safely -- hopefully she is just trying to get them to play with her.
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I would get the cats bed and let the dog sleep on it, or have it in the crate so that the dog will get used to the cats smell.
Maybe once the smell becomes part of the dogs mind, the need to chase off might slow down.
Couldn't hurt anyway…but be sure to keep the dog from the cat until the dog settles down.
Hugs..its awful when the "kids" don't get along! -
In reality, all hounds (sighthound) will most likely chase cats.. as will Terriers and especially herding dogs… Terriers have a very high prey drive... and herding dogs do to the extent that need to control..... so your problem is not really limit to Basenji...
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Whenever Samantha gets rambunctious or wants to show off for us she'll go after the cat. Otherwise she does that thing that B's do by lifting her paw and tilting her head and try to paw at the cat to get her to play - dumb cat never really wants to play with the B!
I do know for sure though that basenjis are definitely faster than cats - Samantha can catch the cat in the back yard and send her tumbling even if the cat has a head start!
Then there are the days that we find them both snuggled up on someones bed getting along peacefully - but I think the cat is just tolerating the situation!
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When I got my first two B's, Maggii could not have cared less about the our cat… until OJ showed up... and then.. it was a pack thing. As long as he didn't run, it was OK, however OJ was determined that all that hair should be plucked out... when we added Mickii the pack thing was worse... also our cat didn't fight back... had he when they were pups and swiped them a few times with his claws.. I think it would have been different... We did wind up separating the house with perm gates.. installed a cat door for him off the master slider to the deck...
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I have found that as long as you introduce them when one or the other is a puppy/kitten they will almost always live as peaceful as basenji life can be. But putting adult cats and dogs together that were never raised with cats or dogs can be tenuous with any breed.
Sometimes (if your there to make sure it doesn't get out of hand) sometimes if they "duke it out " once they come away with a heathy respect for each other and that ends it.
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I have found that as long as you introduce them when one or the other is a puppy/kitten they will almost always live as peaceful as basenji life can be. But putting adult cats and dogs together that were never raised with cats or dogs can be tenuous with any breed.
Sometimes (if your there to make sure it doesn't get out of hand) sometimes if they "duke it out " once they come away with a heathy respect for each other and that ends it.
I can tell you as per my last post… mine were introduced to the cat as puppies and it made not one bit of difference.... Our cat was not a fighter.. and had he stuck up for himself... I think it would have been different.
However on the other hand, one of my puppy owners twice introduced adult cats and adult Basenjis... and work really well.... took time but it worked... each situation is different...
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I have found that as long as you introduce them when one or the other is a puppy/kitten they will almost always live as peaceful as basenji life can be. But putting adult cats and dogs together that were never raised with cats or dogs can be tenuous with any breed.
Sometimes (if your there to make sure it doesn't get out of hand) sometimes if they "duke it out " once they come away with a heathy respect for each other and that ends it.
In my experience, I must disagree. It really depends on the particular dog and the particular cat.
I know I've covered it in previous posts, so won't bother again, except to that I've never had problems introducing dogs of various ages to cats of various ages, until the Basenjis. We've introduced adult dogs to our cats with very little trouble at all, and we've never had a situation, in 22 yrs of marriage, where our dogs and cats were not fast friends.
Both my Basenjis were puppies when we got them. With Jazz, we had one adult cat and one kitten when she moved in. Three years later, they cannot stand each other. With Keoki, he was a puppy, both cats were adults; they HATE him, and he wants to kill them.
The dogs both go nuts if they even catch a glimpse of either cat or hear them. And God help the cat that even thinks about coming over the gate.And trust me, it ain't from lack of trying on our parts!
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It is true that every situation is different.
We always worked our dogs with other animals, training horses, herding horses, cattle, geese ect. So maybe that made a difference. Also when I brought a pup or kitten into the household I would give to the dominent female or bitch and "put them in charge" of it. Once the maternal instinct takes over she will make sure the "pack" accepts her lead.
All that being said it doesn't always work, my ex and I had a coydog rescue that had been severly abused. She attached herself to my ex exclusively. We never had a problen introducing animals UNTIL she became the households dominant bitch (like seven years in) and then we got a kitten that bonded to my wife and she killed it instantly. She wasn't sharing my ex's affection with anyone
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One more thing on a lighter note, basenjis non lethal cat attack cracks me up!!! You know when they charge across the field at full speed and then drop their front legs and use their chest as a battering ram. The cat goes tumbling like a ten pin….... but is none the worse for wear.
I've never seen any breed but a senj do that
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We already had 2 cats when we brought Dingo home and the cats immediately tried to show him who's boss. It didn't take long for him to realize that A) he was a dog and
he was bigger than they were. My wife layed the dog on his back and held him there in a submissive position and let the animals smell each other. It has worked for the most part because they all seem to coexist quite nicely. However, at least once a day Dingo and one of the cats ( Indy) get into a tussle which they both seem to enjoy and it's 50/50 as to who starts the fight. All the other cat (Kion) has to do is raise her paw and he backs off. Oddly enough though, one minute it sounds like they're tearing each other to pieces and the next minute Dingo will be licking (grooming) her. If I can ever post a video of it I'll do so. It is a sight to behold. -
My cat Cali is what we consider an anti-social little brat, ane when you combine that with HYPER, and outgoing Scarlett, the basenji mixm, who like Honey is a shelter rescue, things become amusing. Cali has taught Scarlett over the last year that there are certain things that she can play with and places she can be and where she can't, etc. I still have to monitor them when together during the day and when they are playing, but come bed time all is well, Cali has her bed on the floor and nine times out of ten Scarlett starts off at the foot of the bed and by morning she is curled up at the cat's bed and Cali is using Scarlett as a pillow. Cali was sick about a month ago from excessive stress and trauma, she lost her littermate sister that she had grown up with about a month before Scarlett arrived, and every night Cali was not at home Scarlett laid on the floor beside the cat's bed and cried for her. I never thought that would happen seeing how the acted towards each other a little over a year ago, but now they are wonderful together.
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That is a sweet story…
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When I was a kid, we had a Collie, Major, and when he was old, my mom got a Siamese kitten. Poor Major was so nice to that kitten. Major would lie down and the kitten would curl up inside Major's legs, which was cute, but then he would start grooming Major's paws, and Major would give us a "long-suffering look", get up and move away to lie down somewhere else. Then it would happen all over again. The kitten would continue until we picked him up and diverted his attention.
My Elkhounds didn't play with the cats, but they loved to watch the cats play inside grocery sacks, etc. My Schipperke, Shadow, would break up cat arguments, at least those with his favorite cat, Cupcakes (also black like my Schip). Shadow would give a body block to the other cat that was arguing with Cupcakes – never did it to Cupcakes.
Squirt followed me home when I was walking Shadow. One of my cats was lying in the front yard, and Squirt walked by her without even giving her a glance -- passed the cat test. Tater was cat-tested by my male cat, Blackjack, when he came as a foster dog. Blackjack walked towards Tater until Tater stepped backwards two steps. Then Blackjack stepped forward again, and Tater backed up again. Blackjack then turned around and walked off, as if to say "You passed the test, you can stay."
I've scheduled an appointment with the behaviorist/trainer, and am adding a new technique to the desensitization sessions - giving yummies when Honey "looks at" a cat. Cats = receiving yummies. Honey liked today's session.
I appreciate hearing all the stories and tips, especially the "happy ending" stories! Thanks!
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Two nights ago, Senji woke me up at about midnight and acted like he needed to go out. So I opened the sliding door leading to the fenced-in patio area. He didn't like how hard and crunchy the snow was and couldn't get "comfortable" to do his business. My street is usually quiet, so I decided to let him out the front door, since the sidewalk was shoveled clean of snow. BIG mistake!!! Someone's cat was out roaming the streets, and Senji made a mad dash up the street to chase it. The cat ran back the other direction and eventually ended up crawling down into the storm sewer. I can't believe how fast Senji was running! I called him back to the house, and he actually came!!! He was huffing and puffing, but I can tell he was mighty proud of himself for scaring the cat away. :rolleyes:
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These two get along quite well. Mya has the dominant position over the cat, Oliver, and will prance around every once in awhile with a mouthful of cat hair but they remain still buddies. Gates really seem to work in my house when Mya gets to be too much. We also have a cat tree which seems to help as well.
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CUTE pic!!!!!
