I agree with Lisa… while your list can be helpful, puppymillers have learned to look very reputable making it much harder to look at the website to determine. The bottom line is, no matter if they sell one breed or more, they can be a puppymill. And there are certainly some very legit responsible breeders with 2 or even 4 breeds! My entry into dog breeding/showing was a woman who had English bulldogs, her daughter had aghans and setters. If they don't have pedigrees and health testing info on the web page, I'd run. If they have it and you check OFA and find they falsified, or only maybe the current or some of their dogs have testing.. run. The rest they can fake or pretend but generations of health clearances generally aren't part of a puppymill.
Pet Store Puppies - Problem
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Yes, I am glad you are not going to beat us up. Bella came from a pet store, too. She was an impulse buy of my husband (he got her for my birthday). She is my first dog, I also only had cats that we had rescued. I am not sorry I got her, I love her so much! I will; however, should I decide in the future to get another puppy, buy from a reputable breeder.
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Another item to consider is that most breeders (I think) "offer" a lifetime "return" policy
. My breeder said if for any reason, no matter how old he is, if you don't want him anymore (can't imagine that!!), I will take him back. I actually got Joey when he was 10 months. Call me crazy, but with 5 kids I did not want a puppy. I am sure that I could not have come close to raising Joey so well for his first 10 months as the breeder did. There are still things Joey should learn, but at least I didn't screw him up (as I probably would have, I am a novice dog owner!) in the "informative" years! -
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Correct! Responsible breeders will make it clear to you that if you can't keep the dog for whatever reason, they will be happy to take it back. It may be an inconvenience for the breeder, but we would much rather have the dog back so we can rehome him, than to have the dog be in a bad situation, or placed in a shelter.
You also always have someone to turn to and ask "is this normal?" , or "what do I do now?" with a responsible breeder. They are happy to help you out for the dog's entire life!
Some breeders will also help you out financially with vet bills up to the cost of the dog, if your dog develops a late onset inherited disease (like Fanconi, PRA, or Hip Dysplasia...not all do this though!..as it is very difficult to predict if the pups they sell will develop any of these diseases) -
If people are looking for a puppy, they should ask the breeders they are interviewing about the above mentioned questions. If they don't have an answer, or you aren't comfortable with the answer…don't buy a puppy from that person.
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Taking back the pups that you produce regardless of their age at the time the are returned is on characteristic of a responsible breeder. Responsible breeders also do health testing on the parents such as OFA for hips, CERF for eyes, and monthly strip testing. Responsible breeders have a waiting list before they breed though sometimes litters are bigger than expected or a home or two may not work out.
The OFA website is great place to check if breeders are doing health testing. Since most breeders use their kennel name as the first word you can type in the their kennel name in the Quick Search and see if there are any dogs listed. If it is a popular kennel name you can use the advanced search to limit the results to a specific breed. http://www.offa.org
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I here you about pet store puppys. that is where i got my stella. I just could not leave her in there anylonger every day that i came to work she would whine and cry she got there the last week of march i took her home the 1st week of july. She did not sell because every time someone looked at her she would pee or bite at them. So far she has not nipped at me.At 1st she hated my other dog but now i can't keep them apart.I just wish i knew why she has not grown but to half the size and has a skin problem that my vets can not pin point.So she is my miniture B !
Merry X-mas and a happy Baroo year from stella and I -
hello i **used**to work at petland and i can tell you what they do w/ the puppys they cant sell Hunte kennel corp sends them to texas to be sold at a flea market and if they do not sell they put them in whats called a bone barrel need i say more i got my B from there just because i loved her sooooooooooo much and if i did not take her she was going to be sent back to hunte in a week or 2 so my hubby thinks they gave me the B but i payed 1,500$ for her and i would do it again just to have her in my live but please if you can dont shop at pet stores where they sell puppies or cats thank you shannon & stella
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I don't think it can be emphasized enough that every time someone buys a puppy from petstore it only perpetuates the puppymill cycle by showing there is a market for those puppies. When people buy from petstores to "save" the puppy, they doom the parents and future siblings because the puppymills don't care why someone buys their puppies only that they buy them.
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Oh my Gosh! That is about twice what a responsible breeder in most areas of the country would charge!
I can understand why you felt like you had to save her...I would probably have felt the same way! I think you did exactly the right thing, you realized what those stores are all about, saved your girl, and got out...can't blame you for that!
But Lisa is right, the only way for the public to send a message, and stop these cruel people is to not buy from them. Most people don't realized the truth about pet stores (I think even a lot of the employees don't) but once they realize they vow not to use them. -
Yikes…. 1500.00.... outrageous, not that you paid that... but that they are selling a puppymill dog for that kind of money.... no health testing, no socialization as a baby... nothing.... However, glad that you gave a baby a forever home .... can certainly understand...
And it is amazing how many employees at pet stores don't have a clue about responsible breeding and placing puppies... they (most of them) are suckered into thinking this is the way it is done....
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I had warned some acquaintances about buying a puppy they had seen (for $1500) they went and bought anyway. This was a mixed breed too!!
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Bella was $900.00 (she was marked down because a customer "dropped" her and sprained her front ankle). The ankle healed as the vet said it would since the x-rays did not show a break. I did have an idea about the mills at the time, but not how bad they really are. Besides she was a gift from my husband I could not refuse… I am so glad to have her and wonder what kind of life, if any, she would be living if I had not gotten her. With the sprained ankle she may not have found a home. Then who knows what would have happened to her:(
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On some of the other non-Basenji forums I belong to, I close my eyes and pray when someone comes on with a question about what kind of puppy to get. I always say to myself, "Don't anybody suggest a Basenji. Don't anybody suggest a Basenji."
Can you tell I hate what happens when a dog breed becomes "popular"? It especially bothers me with Basenjis (wonder why, LOL!?!?!). They just ain't anywhere near typical to what the general public expects from a dog. I hate to even imagine what would happen if there was a "101 Basenjis" movie made. (Please, Powers-that-be, don't ever let them remake "Goodbye My Lady.")
I know, I'm crazy! :p
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Isn't funny how many not your regular dog things that the Basenji has that we cringe about but in a sick twisted way we adore? My friends with normal dogs will never get it and our "normal" dog has been corrupted by our B! LOL!
While I got Zahra from a pet store I do agree with you about the popularity thing. I just don't think that this is the dog for everyone and they are certainly more of a challenge than a lab.
I did my homework on the breed (not the puppy mills, I know better now) when my husband started talking about getting one I researched it online and became fearful from all that I have read. When I saw her in the pet store I thought there was no way this adorable thing could destroy my house. Right. I type this as I sit surrounded by shredded papertowls and two dog coated in glue from a mouse trap.
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Speaking of dogs becoming "popular". I met a woman at the dog park with 4 B's who feels like they are becoming the new popular dog. I was just wondering if people in other parts of the country feel that way or if its just an LA thing.
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I understand why people are so protective about B's. Although recently I met a man who had gone to basenji rescue and said he was given the cold shoulder when he said he never owned a basenji. He ended up buying from a breeder and now is totally in love with his basenji that he has had for a few years. I wonder are we being too cautious?
My other two cents (sorry bored tonight)…
I read so many articles in dog magazines that are quick to point out how B's are so hyper, distructive, chew everything, are so difficult/stubborn and hard to train. Just by what is written in magazines I would never want a basenji. Why are they portrayed so negatively!
My boy is soooo layed back and mellow he is totally sweet to my dog walker/sitter the vet and the groomer. He is great with kids people of all ages great with other dogs knows a handfull of tricks does not do weird things with toilet paper/trash can or destroy my house does not make a big deal about water doesnt mind when I wake him or move him when sleeping. He is awsome with my other small pets. He's just a mellow go with the flow kind of guy (can you tell I'm a proud dog mom). I guess what I am trying to say is I feel like people are so quick to point out the bad traits in basenjis lets focus on the good! I long for the day that people dont make a face at me and say "oh I heard those dogs are crazy"< yes I hear that alote, and instead say "oh I hear those dogs are wonderful pets". -
@vstripe:
I understand why people are so protective about B's. Although recently I met a man who had gone to basenji rescue and said he was given the cold shoulder when he said he never owned a basenji. He ended up buying from a breeder and now is totally in love with his basenji that he has had for a few years. I wonder are we being too cautious?
My other two cents (sorry bored tonight)…
I read so many articles in dog magazines that are quick to point out how B's are so hyper, distructive, chew everything, are so difficult/stubborn and hard to train. Just by what is written in magazines I would never want a basenji. Why are they portrayed so negatively!
My boy is soooo layed back and mellow he is totally sweet to my dog walker/sitter the vet and the groomer. He is great with kids people of all ages great with other dogs knows a handfull of tricks does not do weird things with toilet paper/trash can or destroy my house does not make a big deal about water doesnt mind when I wake him or move him when sleeping. He is awsome with my other small pets. He's just a mellow go with the flow kind of guy (can you tell I'm a proud dog mom). I guess what I am trying to say is I feel like people are so quick to point out the bad traits in basenjis lets focus on the good! I long for the day that people dont make a face at me and say "oh I heard those dogs are crazy"< yes I hear that alote, and instead say "oh I hear those dogs are wonderful pets".I agree totally. I hadn't ever heard of this breed until after we had Duke in the house 4 mos. (He was abandoned) We brought this 12 week old whipper-snapper home determined to keep him. I wouldn't want this breed to be "popular" in the sense of the word, but it would be nice if the breed were known. i.e. the Jack Russell (Parsons) terrier is a known breed typed "hyper". Knowing that, I never in a million years wanted that type of breed. But, alas - I have that type in the Basenji breed. The positive characteristics about Basenjis are only known to the ones who adore and love them. My family couldn't imagine why I wanted another dog like Duke. (we just added a B-mix puppy into our family). They've only seen Dukes disposition when he was a 6-7 mo old pup. They haven't lived with him to discover his positive quirky side - the side that made me fall in love with him. That side is much bigger than the hyper.
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That is great! But it is kind of unusual. I am not sure how old your Basenji is, but that is *really unusual if he is under three years old. I understand you rescued your dog, so if you ask the group that you rescued him through, I think you will understand why we don't want the general public to say "these dogs are wonderful pets" The Basenji *could be advertised as the perfect dog....they don't bark, they don't smell, they don't shed much, they are 'hypoallergenic', and they are a smallish dog with a bigger personality. That sounds great to a lot of people who don't really want a dog
or one person in the family wants one, and the other doesn't. "oh, you won't even notice he is here, he doesn't bark, he doesn't smell, and he cleans himself!' So these people buy a puppy, and go thru all the normal puppy stuff, plus all the relentless basenji stuff. And as everyone assures them the destruction and the screaming in the crate will get better with age, it doesn't. And then maybe the dog starts challenging them as he reaches adulthood. They learn to cope with his "moods" and then they have a baby...the dog is threatened and nervous of the baby...bye, bye dog.
I tell people, we try to scare you away, and if you are *still interested, maybe you are a good match for a Basenji. And, I won't start telling people any differently, because I want to make sure they are FULLY aware of what they *could be getting into. Some Basenjis really *are the perfect dog...but the majority are not the type of dog that someone who wants an *easy dog is looking for.
Hopefully you have or read thru the forum and realize how many problems there are with dog/dog interactions in Basenjis, personal space issues, waking while sleeping, destruction, crate issues. These are issues that can be dealt with a lot of training...but most people don't want a dog that is a "fixer upper". I don't mean people like us, people that ended up here....we like a challenge
I love it when people admire my dogs...they always ask about them, and when I give my warning, they are shocked because my dogs are acting adorable and sweet. My family, on the other hand, knows my dogs very well...and they often say 'that seems like an awful lot of work'...why not just have one sweet lab? -
I do enjoy "educating people" on this breed, as Basenjis are not popular in WV. I will tell people all about the history, characteristics (positive and possibly negative), colors, and temperment. I always say how good Bella is but point out that early socilization is a factor in that. She is so good with people and other dogs! I also tell people that they need a lot of patience since this is a strong willed breed. I also tell them a good sense of humor is a must!
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I thought I would put this in a separate post
Magazines, and their like, are known to generalize. I would say the above description is not accurate mainly because Basenjis are NOT hyper, nor are they hard to train. Basenjis can be busy, but it is always with a purpose…not like JRs...perpetual motion machine. And Basenjis are REALLY easy to train using positive reinforcement techniques...what is hard is to get them to comply when they don't see anything in it for them. Or when they are focused on something other than you. I think magazines use these words because they feel the public will understand them.More appropriate description of a basenji would be 'independant thinker, who wants to be part of the family, and will show his displeasure at being separated. Needs a human family who is comfortable setting boundaries, and giving gentle structure. Positive reinforcement training a must. Never reliable off lead. Needs tall, secure fence. '
How is that? ;)_
