I agree with Lisa… while your list can be helpful, puppymillers have learned to look very reputable making it much harder to look at the website to determine. The bottom line is, no matter if they sell one breed or more, they can be a puppymill. And there are certainly some very legit responsible breeders with 2 or even 4 breeds! My entry into dog breeding/showing was a woman who had English bulldogs, her daughter had aghans and setters. If they don't have pedigrees and health testing info on the web page, I'd run. If they have it and you check OFA and find they falsified, or only maybe the current or some of their dogs have testing.. run. The rest they can fake or pretend but generations of health clearances generally aren't part of a puppymill.
Pet Store Puppies - Problem
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Surprised Sharon hasn't chimed in on this yet - as a BRAT Rescue Coordinator, she has undoubtedly seen many many puppy mill dogs. I remember just a couple of years ago here in Fresno a puppy mill was closed down - our vet, who owns one of our Basenjis, took 2 of the dogs to foster. They were a mother/daughter pair. The mother had been bred several times and when they were rescued, both dogs were living in a 200 size Vari-Kennel which had about 10 inches of compacted feces in the bottom, making even less space for them. They took weeks to learn to walk properly. They had never been in a house, were terrified of people, and didn't even know how to eat from a dog dish - apparently what food they got was just tossed into the crate on top of the poop. Fortunately, dogs, even Basenjis, are incredibly forgiving of humans. The mother was adopted, and our vet kept the younger girl. They are both doing well now, but they definitely don't have the same irreverent, happy attitude of Basenjis from healthy loving homes.
We had a miniature poodle from a pet shop before our Basenjis. I know where Jill is coming from when she says she thought dog show people bred for dog show people. We thought similarly - we thought if you wanted a show dog or a breeding dog you went to a breeder, if you wanted a pet, of course you went to a pet store! We learned. And another part of being a breeder is educating everyone you know about why buying from a breeder is a better idea.
Terry
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Youngandtired - your posts keep it interesting and you bring up a valid point. You found Sahara and this amazing breed. When I discovered that Duke was a Basenji, I was at first worried, but I understood him better and realized how blessed I am for taking an abandoned puppy home. He was a day away from going to the Humane Society. Basenji's are one cool breed.
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Terry, I agree, puppymills and pet stores contribute a large number of dogs to rescue. Because pet stores are really relying on that impulse buy of that "cute" puppy, people get dogs without knowing anything about the breed. For some people this works out and both the person and dog are happy but there are far too many instances where after that "Oh how cute" feeling wears off the person is frustrated by behaviors that are natural to the breed and with no continuing support finally decide to get rid of the dog. For some that decision comes fairly quickly, I have seen several listing on rescue sites around "puppy season" for pet store puppies given up by their owners in the first 3-4 weeks when they realize that basenjis are an active breed in need of more attention and exercise than they are able to provide. More heartbreaking are the ones that the owners throw in the backyard for a couple of years and only see for feeding before they decide that it is unfair for the dog and decide to give it up.
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When I saw my Sahara in the pet store, I asked questions about the breed. They were very helpful and had a large book on dog breeds and what to expect. I remember reading that B could be hard to housebreak, (they did it by giving stars, only 3 stars here.) It also stated that B were stubborn and some do not get along with other B or other house dogs. In fact, I mentioned to my son that maybe this breed was not for me, b/c I had once had a toy poodle that I could not housebreak and I didn't want to go through that again. He of course talked right over that point and said that now that I don't work it would be easier, and by Golly, he was right. Sahara is fully housebroken, and it wasn't that hard, but she is still STUBBORN. haha:D
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I have no idea what is wrong, have tried to post 3 times and I either get "forbidden" notes or it hangs up. SOOOO if this appears a few times, I am sorry… trying again
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Yes, I am glad you are not going to beat us up. Bella came from a pet store, too. She was an impulse buy of my husband (he got her for my birthday). She is my first dog, I also only had cats that we had rescued. I am not sorry I got her, I love her so much! I will; however, should I decide in the future to get another puppy, buy from a reputable breeder.
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Another item to consider is that most breeders (I think) "offer" a lifetime "return" policy
. My breeder said if for any reason, no matter how old he is, if you don't want him anymore (can't imagine that!!), I will take him back. I actually got Joey when he was 10 months. Call me crazy, but with 5 kids I did not want a puppy. I am sure that I could not have come close to raising Joey so well for his first 10 months as the breeder did. There are still things Joey should learn, but at least I didn't screw him up (as I probably would have, I am a novice dog owner!) in the "informative" years! -
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Correct! Responsible breeders will make it clear to you that if you can't keep the dog for whatever reason, they will be happy to take it back. It may be an inconvenience for the breeder, but we would much rather have the dog back so we can rehome him, than to have the dog be in a bad situation, or placed in a shelter.
You also always have someone to turn to and ask "is this normal?" , or "what do I do now?" with a responsible breeder. They are happy to help you out for the dog's entire life!
Some breeders will also help you out financially with vet bills up to the cost of the dog, if your dog develops a late onset inherited disease (like Fanconi, PRA, or Hip Dysplasia...not all do this though!..as it is very difficult to predict if the pups they sell will develop any of these diseases) -
If people are looking for a puppy, they should ask the breeders they are interviewing about the above mentioned questions. If they don't have an answer, or you aren't comfortable with the answer…don't buy a puppy from that person.
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Taking back the pups that you produce regardless of their age at the time the are returned is on characteristic of a responsible breeder. Responsible breeders also do health testing on the parents such as OFA for hips, CERF for eyes, and monthly strip testing. Responsible breeders have a waiting list before they breed though sometimes litters are bigger than expected or a home or two may not work out.
The OFA website is great place to check if breeders are doing health testing. Since most breeders use their kennel name as the first word you can type in the their kennel name in the Quick Search and see if there are any dogs listed. If it is a popular kennel name you can use the advanced search to limit the results to a specific breed. http://www.offa.org
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I here you about pet store puppys. that is where i got my stella. I just could not leave her in there anylonger every day that i came to work she would whine and cry she got there the last week of march i took her home the 1st week of july. She did not sell because every time someone looked at her she would pee or bite at them. So far she has not nipped at me.At 1st she hated my other dog but now i can't keep them apart.I just wish i knew why she has not grown but to half the size and has a skin problem that my vets can not pin point.So she is my miniture B !
Merry X-mas and a happy Baroo year from stella and I -
hello i **used**to work at petland and i can tell you what they do w/ the puppys they cant sell Hunte kennel corp sends them to texas to be sold at a flea market and if they do not sell they put them in whats called a bone barrel need i say more i got my B from there just because i loved her sooooooooooo much and if i did not take her she was going to be sent back to hunte in a week or 2 so my hubby thinks they gave me the B but i payed 1,500$ for her and i would do it again just to have her in my live but please if you can dont shop at pet stores where they sell puppies or cats thank you shannon & stella
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I don't think it can be emphasized enough that every time someone buys a puppy from petstore it only perpetuates the puppymill cycle by showing there is a market for those puppies. When people buy from petstores to "save" the puppy, they doom the parents and future siblings because the puppymills don't care why someone buys their puppies only that they buy them.
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Oh my Gosh! That is about twice what a responsible breeder in most areas of the country would charge!
I can understand why you felt like you had to save her...I would probably have felt the same way! I think you did exactly the right thing, you realized what those stores are all about, saved your girl, and got out...can't blame you for that!
But Lisa is right, the only way for the public to send a message, and stop these cruel people is to not buy from them. Most people don't realized the truth about pet stores (I think even a lot of the employees don't) but once they realize they vow not to use them. -
Yikes…. 1500.00.... outrageous, not that you paid that... but that they are selling a puppymill dog for that kind of money.... no health testing, no socialization as a baby... nothing.... However, glad that you gave a baby a forever home .... can certainly understand...
And it is amazing how many employees at pet stores don't have a clue about responsible breeding and placing puppies... they (most of them) are suckered into thinking this is the way it is done....
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I had warned some acquaintances about buying a puppy they had seen (for $1500) they went and bought anyway. This was a mixed breed too!!
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Bella was $900.00 (she was marked down because a customer "dropped" her and sprained her front ankle). The ankle healed as the vet said it would since the x-rays did not show a break. I did have an idea about the mills at the time, but not how bad they really are. Besides she was a gift from my husband I could not refuse… I am so glad to have her and wonder what kind of life, if any, she would be living if I had not gotten her. With the sprained ankle she may not have found a home. Then who knows what would have happened to her:(
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On some of the other non-Basenji forums I belong to, I close my eyes and pray when someone comes on with a question about what kind of puppy to get. I always say to myself, "Don't anybody suggest a Basenji. Don't anybody suggest a Basenji."
Can you tell I hate what happens when a dog breed becomes "popular"? It especially bothers me with Basenjis (wonder why, LOL!?!?!). They just ain't anywhere near typical to what the general public expects from a dog. I hate to even imagine what would happen if there was a "101 Basenjis" movie made. (Please, Powers-that-be, don't ever let them remake "Goodbye My Lady.")
I know, I'm crazy! :p
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Isn't funny how many not your regular dog things that the Basenji has that we cringe about but in a sick twisted way we adore? My friends with normal dogs will never get it and our "normal" dog has been corrupted by our B! LOL!
While I got Zahra from a pet store I do agree with you about the popularity thing. I just don't think that this is the dog for everyone and they are certainly more of a challenge than a lab.
I did my homework on the breed (not the puppy mills, I know better now) when my husband started talking about getting one I researched it online and became fearful from all that I have read. When I saw her in the pet store I thought there was no way this adorable thing could destroy my house. Right. I type this as I sit surrounded by shredded papertowls and two dog coated in glue from a mouse trap.
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Speaking of dogs becoming "popular". I met a woman at the dog park with 4 B's who feels like they are becoming the new popular dog. I was just wondering if people in other parts of the country feel that way or if its just an LA thing.
