@DebraDownSouth:
you continue to compare ANY use of an e-collar with abusive practices. How about comparing it with, oh, positive training?
My point with e-collars remains that if you use even some pain, it is abusive and unnecessary. I don't care if it is more effective even (though again, in training contests, clicker beats most methods with experienced trainers).
Sure. Positive training in this context meaning positive reinforcement. I train with positive reinforcement all the time, including with a clicker. Nice little invention, and more precise than a marker word (which I have used forever). As I believe I have stated before, I don't personally "train" with the e-collar. I use it for safety, and yes, as an aversive to inhibit behaviour I don't want and that is dangerous…..e.g. cat chasing, skunk encounters, chasing game of any sort. I like my dog to have some off leash freedom, but I don't want him running into danger, and I have the means of preventing that. His recall is generally good, but I won't bet his life on it under high distraction.
I have watched and participated in e-collar training sessions, and they are very low key. The antithesis of abusive. But I think the clicker has it beat for learning most new behaviours. E-collar wins when you add distance (and of course you can use tone or vibration, not shock). I would rate low stimulation corrections as mildly annoying, rather than painful (from personal research, and from observation). This type of training is correctly labelled negative reinforcement, which I am very comfortable with since it is the foundation of most horse training (and yes, I have trained horses certain behaviours using a clicker, but it isn't very practical when mounted, although I have always used marker words and positive reinforcement in training horses, as well as using negative reinforcement.) Horse trainers "fix it up and let him find it", in other words, add pressure of some sort and let the horse discover what action causes the pressure to go away. You can do the same thing with an e-collar, and again, I stress it can and should be very low key.
When people start criticizing e-collars, I like to point out that most training aids can be abusive if used incorrectly. Crates can and do cause great emotional distress. Judicious use of them is humane and just fine, from my point of view, but they can easily become the "go to" solution in lieu of proper training......that "slippery slope" you alluded to.....