Need your opinions - is this training method okay?

[Basenjimamma]

How weird and highly disturbing, if it affected you, you know it affected Kipawa too..I would say, Go with your gut…if it feels ok, see it through if not, stay away.

[Patty]

This sounds horrendous - and very old school. However I do know of several trainers who use this type of correction.

If both you and Kipawa found this stressful I would definitely look for another training class. In my experience, Basenjis training should always be accompanied by calmness.

I'm also horrified by the Bitter Apple spraying without checking with you first whether it was ok. I tell you this, my Basenjis wouldn't have been deterred by Bitter Apple - it has never worked for them!! They'd probably lick it off and then continue to chew!!!!

[sharronhurlbut]

Not good. find anothe class.

[Kipawa]

Yesterday morning I sent an email to the trainer. I brought up a number of things that I mentioned in this thread. I've not received a reply or call yet. We are expected at a class tonight, which we won't be at. I wouldn't be surprised if I ever hear back from her.

Last night Kipawa and I were taking our evening walk. For about 90% of the walk he heeled perfectly and looked up at me to 'check in' with me. He refused to do this at the class on Tuesday. So, we ARE progressing, and a lot of it is because of information from Therese and all of you folks. When I think of his behaviour six months ago, he a different dog! His neutering is probably also responsible for that.

So, for now, we are going to perfect what we have been working on to date, in addition to things we have not done yet. One new thing we will work on is shaking the Poochie Bells when he wants to go outside. I got them earlier this week and I'm going to make the training fun with lots of positive reinforcement.

[Moth]

What a strange way to handle a dog…

I have never seen anything like that in all my time training. Poor Kipawa that had to be extremely startling for him.

[Patty]

I'm pleased you've made this decision, Fran. You are obviously doing very well with Kipawa and it would be such a shame to spoil that. I'd never heard of Poochie Bells - not sure if they've hit the UK yet but they sound a good idea.

[Kipawa]

@Patty:

I'd never heard of Poochie Bells - not sure if they've hit the UK yet but they sound a good idea.

Patty, they are a great idea if you don't have a doggie door that your basenji/dog can use on their own. Here is a link so you can see what they are like. Anybody that does well making crafts could probably make them really easily.

http://poochie-pets.net/

[LewieFitz]

@Kipawa:

So, for now, we are going to perfect what we have been working on to date, in addition to things we have not done yet. One new thing we will work on is shaking the Poochie Bells when he wants to go outside. I got them earlier this week and I'm going to make the training fun with lots of positive reinforcement.

We have had the "poochie bells" since Lewie was only a few months old. He was easily trained to ring them. We used to take him out every 1.5 hours and before we would open the door, we would say "out" and shake the bells. He quickly associated the door with both the word "out" and the bell and now rings every time he needs to go out (although he does occasionally abuse his power by ringing them when he knows we are about to leave). FYI: Lewie is only 9 months old…

[Patty]

They sound like a very good idea. So far I've got by on telepathy - that 'stand, look up at me stare' but they seem a very good idea for Basenji sitters. Thank you for the link Fran - there was a UK link on the site too and I'm going there.

[tanza]

While we do have a doggy door, so bells are not really necessary, I did try it one time when we were having feral cat problems…. Quickly they learned, however it become a source of amusement for them to ring the bell every two minutes cause they just wanted to check out the yard!

[Chealsie508]

Fran (kipawa)… I am curious, did you ever hear back from the trainer? Did you take any more classes with her?

[Kipawa]

@Chealsie508:

Fran (kipawa)… I am curious, did you ever hear back from the trainer? Did you take any more classes with her?

Chealsie508 - seems my gut reaction and everyone's comments here were bang on. I never heard back from the trainer, and of course never signed up for more classes.

Not responding to what I told her in the email speaks volumes. Obviously she does not care about 'word of mouth'. I guess she believes that her facility is SO well established that she did not need to respond. Well, she should have, if only to to some damage control to stop me from steering people clear of her training facility. Suffice to say that I mention the incident to anyone looking for a trainer. Then I just say that the "older style training method they use is not a training style to use if you want a well balanced dog".

We found an awesome trainer in September, but she lives in Washington state. I loved her and love Kipawa, but that is a bit much. Hmmm… now that I am thinking of it, it could make for a nice little two day trip for Mommy and doggie?

[Chealsie508]

That really is such a shame she didn't respond, it would have been nice to at least her from her point of view what she thought she was accomplishing. Certainly, if nothing else she should have responded as a business woman. I don't blame you for telling people about your experience, whenever I find a good lead, whether it be on dog coats or a good vet I can't wait to share it with my dog loving friends; it's the same with bad experiences. Glad to hear you and Kipawa have moved past it!

[eeeefarm]

It would have been interesting to talk to the people who owned the poodle mix and ask them what the outcome was…...good or bad......and whether they had continued with the class. I am surprised that the trainer did not get back to you, for the reasons you stated and also because if she has confidence in her abilities and methods I would think she would have wanted to explain to you why she felt such methods would work in this case.

[CongoMama]

I disagree her silence speaks volumes. All it tells me is - she may or may not have received the email. The assumption is, she did. The truth might be, she did not. Only one way to find out, call and discuss your issues with her; until then she really should be given the benefit of the doubt that she was not in reciept of it, no?

[Kipawa]

@CongoMama:

I disagree her silence speaks volumes. All it tells me is - she may or may not have received the email. The assumption is, she did. The truth might be, she did not. Only one way to find out, call and discuss your issues with her; until then she really should be given the benefit of the doubt that she was not in reciept of it, no?

Yes, there can always be technical glitches. However, I emailed to her personal email which I used extensively when I was asking her about her classes and finding out when she had availability. We both used each others' email addresses numerous times with no problems.

You have a beautiful attitude, and I thank you for sharing it. The world will always need more people like you!

[sharronhurlbut]

CongoMama, I agree with Fran.
Your post is very kind.

[DebraDownSouth]

Me too– We could all do with kinder folks around. Lord knows I wish I were more like you.

[suzee]

Oh my goodness. That is INSANE. I would have walked out. That is NOT okay.. I know that my boy is very sensitive. I don't know his past as I only adopted him in July and he's been through so many homes. High stress situations make him anxious.. I have had GREAT success just training him myself. He now knows sit, stay, down, no, roll over, high five, low five, back, and spin. Positive reinforcement is key!! And tasty treats haha!

[Kipawa]

I still think about that class, and know that I am lucky Kipawa and I left when we did.

Kipawa has come along marvelously. I remember that trainer saying that by the end of our classes, our dogs would be walking beside us with our leashes forming a nice loose "J". I wonder what sort of method she would have used for that. A broom? Okay, that is a little catty of me, but probably something like that would not be that out of line for her training methods.

I found it quite simple to do with Kipawa, using positive reinforcement. I usually carry a few treats in my pocket, but now he thinks I always have treats in there. It works very well.

It would have been nice to know how things worked out for the couple that had Kato. Perhaps I will see them in a dog park one day. They were really nice, as was their dog. Their dog just needed to be worked with more.