By "the new person" do you mean me?
I didn't disregard Nocturnal Kennels because of one infected puppy. The rest of the two litters of puppies still contained carriers, yet they do not, as you say, and as their Breeders.net listing says, have any spay/neuter contract.
I am not saying that all carriers need to be spayed/neutered, but their breedings would need to be monitored. I am not satisfied with her explanation that NOT enforcing a spay/neuter contract allows procreative choices to future owners who want to make "BASENJIS FOR ALL!" I see it as a way to divert attention from the very real possibility that any future Fanconi-affected Basenjis coming from her lines, or Basenjis that enter rescue from poorly planned breedings and placements coming out of her lines, can and should be traced back to her kennel.
Those, and other reasons are why I would totally disregard her kennel. Too many breeds on site for my taste – Westies and Welshies and Doxies are not easy either, and prone to all SORTS of hereditary problems that also need to be tested for. She doesn't show her dogs. She's not part of the breed club. "Parents on site." Do I really have to go through the whole list?? These would be minimal standards even if I was only interested in a pet -- to say nothing of looking for foundation stock!
O ok. I didnt mean you as new to the forums, i mean new to this thread. and ok i understand where you are coming from. I just thought you had joined that thred just to say that you wouldnt buy from them. but ok and i didnt mean to insult you if i did. I just thought you entering the forum you judged her on what you read. but never mind. sorry
Did you read this thread in its entirety?
http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?t=7265
Do you see how it relates to this thread? Especially the pitfalls of selling dogs intact?
There is so much talk about irresponsible breeders on this thread with which I totally agree.
I've followed this thread with much interest as obviously we don't have such a major problem here (obviously because we are amuch smaller country). Our main problem with puppy farmers and b.yd breeders are in other much more commercial breeds.
I do disagree about numbers making for irresponsibility although I admit that you can't give all the same attention as you can if you only have one (or two) that's self evident, but you do as much as you possibly can to make their lives happy and complete. It's much harder work though and I empathise with those who do keep numbers responsibly. This is the main reason why I have stopped breeding as at my age I could possibly come to a point where I'm unable to give my Basenjis enough attention.
I must admit that I miss the puppies though and that's why I so love to see all your litter pictures!!
Mind you I know of breeders who would consider themselves very responsible and yet many of their dogs are crated or kennelled 23 hours out of 24!
Did anyone see this review re: Nocturnal?
NICE PEOPLE, BUT NOT IMPRESSED WITH THE SET UP AND ENVIRONMENT THE PETS ARE IN
Uniqueantique has got to be planted to write that. I visited this place and yes the animals are not in cages,but… the are kept in dirt chicken wire pens. This breeder also is known for buying her breeding dogs from a known puppy mill. You are lead to beleive they are breeding akc standard puppies when most are CKC registered. I was not pleased at all with the misleading of quality dogs being produced by this back yard puppy mill.Quality not quanity huh, didn't even see any quality. I then realized you get what you pay for. Yes they were nice but I saw a different setting then unique writes.
I saw that Linda as I am sure did others… however as they say a pictures is worth 1000 words... so their pictures of their facilities speaks volumes.
And Patty... I agree there are people that think they are responsible that crate 23 out of 24... however I don't think that it is.... but then I don't think that the set up of dogs in pens made of chicken wire and dirt is either.
As they say buyer beware... and people should always try to visit breeders before they commit.
I dont agree that because the breeder in question has more than one or two breeds they automatically are a puppy farmer or are not giving their dogs the care and socialisation required. If you were to look at my website you will see 3, soon to be 4, breeds listed on there. We dont breed regularly (last year we had one litter and kept a pup to show) and we do health test and show our dogs, but by some peoples definition we would be having uncared for, poorly socialised dogs just by having them listed on the website which, as anyone who has met my doggie family can tell you, is far from the truth 
I think too much can be read into breeders websites. Like, for example with mine, we have 4 breeds, however, they are split between two different homes and owners (me and my mum) but are owned and shown under a joint kennel name so they are all under the website with our joint kennel name. But, obviously its not really necessary to go into so much detail on a website (i certainly dont want people knowing details of where my individual dogs live from looking on my website!!) so we explain further when people ring up to enquire 
And, personally, i do believe that keeping any dog caged 23 hours a day is cruel… If a child were kept in a tiny room for 23 hours a day there would be uproar. But, i do realise this goes on quite often and thats sad. IMO dogs should be part of the family and be raised as companions, or if they are working dogs then i know a lot of people kennel them and i have no problem with that as they will spend most of the day working. But i never will understand why people buy a dog, then confine it to a tiny cell for the rest of its life, that makes me so sad. Between me and my mum we own 14 dogs, none of them are crated for any length of time. So, it is perfectly do able
There is so much talk about irresponsible breeders on this thread with which I totally agree.
I've followed this thread with much interest as obviously we don't have such a major problem here (obviously because we are amuch smaller country). Our main problem with puppy farmers and b.yd breeders are in other much more commercial breeds.
I do disagree about numbers making for irresponsibility although I admit that you can't give all the same attention as you can if you only have one (or two) that's self evident, but you do as much as you possibly can to make their lives happy and complete. It's much harder work though and I empathise with those who do keep numbers responsibly. This is the main reason why I have stopped breeding as at my age I could possibly come to a point where I'm unable to give my Basenjis enough attention.
I must admit that I miss the puppies though and that's why I so love to see all your litter pictures!!
Mind you I know of breeders who would consider themselves very responsible and yet many of their dogs are crated or kennelled 23 hours out of 24!
Unfortunately my two other breeds (labs and pugs) are two of the worst suffering with puppy farmers, it is a real problem for those of us who breed those dogs responsibly and carefully as a lot of times people dont care about whether a breeder has health tested or shown their dogs, they just want a CHEAP puppy. Its such a shame…
And Jess, go to their advertisements, look at the conditions… then post your thoughts.
Shameful…poor dogs.
And Jess, go to their advertisements, look at the conditions… then post your thoughts.
Where are the ads?
ETA: My comments werent in defence of this particular breeder, just pointing out that its not always a good idea to generalise
Here are some of the ads
Welsh Terriers
http://www.breeders.net/breeder/153231
http://www.qualitydogs.com/Welsh_Terrier/breeders.html
Basenjis
http://www.breeders.net/detail.php?id=213060
http://www.doggies.com/Basenji/Ohio
Westies
http://www.doggies.com/West_Highland_White_Terrier/Wilmington
Oh, I knew I have had dealings with this woman before. I rehomed a "blue" basenji that was up in Wa. This dog was quite unique looking re fur color…Kathy Britton had seen him.
Nice boy, I found a great home for him.
And as already pointed out, the pictures of her kennels is less then acceptable, in my opinion… and if you have kennel situations and can not afford to put up good kennel runs then you should not be breeding... Saying that it is "work" in progress is not (again in my opinion) acceptable conditions for any dog to be living in...
What is it about the kennels you object to?
Robyn, I guess I don't get your question. Wire and dirt are not OK as kennels IMO.
Any bubba can do this, and most of the puppymillers do this or worse.
Robyn, I guess I don't get your question. Wire and dirt are not OK as kennels IMO.
Any bubba can do this, and most of the puppymillers do this or worse.
I guess I must be a puppymill then since my dogs have killed the grass in my yard and it is nothing but dirt now. And FWIW, rolled wire fencing is far better than chain link for keeping Basenjis in. It sways when they climb it and they have a hard time getting out of it. I know. I used to have it where I lived previously. The chain link I have now does not keep one of my Basenjis in. He gets hold of the bar at the top and pushes himself over. He would not be able to do that if I had been smart enough to install rolled wire as it has no bar across the top.
Interesting…I'm with Robin - I guess I thought by all the talk that I was going to see a trash strewn kennel run that was layered with feces. :rolleyes: I guess I must be a bubba - I have wire (chain link) and dirt (with some grass mixed in).
Like Robin, my dogs have killed a large section of the grass in their main run so there is now a third of the run that is down to dirt and weeds. Even though I'll most likely replant grass this fall, I have no hope that it will look any better come next fall since I have 2 diggers (Ozzy & Liyah - occasionally Ruby likes to dig as well). I've been toying with the idea of hardscaping all but 2 small sections - keeping one section grass and one dirt (sandbox so they can dig). Under the deck I'll be changing it from organic tree bark to pea stone.
Oh, and with the rolled wire, I've considered doing my new dog area with rolled wire and horse fencing - definitely harder to get out with that than chain link. I still haven't made up my mind.
I don't think it looked all that bad, particularly the fencing looked fine. But the resting area (shade area?) looked like it could use some work. And there looked like there was quite a bit of feces in their area. Now…I am certainly not claiming to have the most spotless dog area in the world. There are areas where the grass is overgrown, and there are areas where there is no longer grass but if I were going to put some pics on the internet advertising my 'breeding facility' I would surely make sure it looked freakin' perfect.
The real question here is if this is just the area where the dogs spend *some of the time...or is this the area where they *live....that would make a difference to me.
Now…I am certainly not claiming to have the most spotless dog area in the world. There are areas where the grass is overgrown, and there are areas where there is no longer grass
The real question here is if this is just the area where the dogs spend *some of the time...or is this the area where they *live....that would make a difference to me.
YES! to all of that. I don't think there is any grass anywhere on my property - 5 acres. And where I live, water is precious commodity, especially right now when everything is as dry as a tinderbox. People in town have grass, but nobody on my street has grass. BUT if I were putting pics on the 'net, I'd make sure things looked the very best they could.
What I do find questionable is the quality of the dogs, the number of dogs (6-8 of each breed, 4 breeds), lack of spay/neuter, etc
We frequently have summer droughts and water restrictions here, too. Replanting grass in my yard won't be a simple process. The ground here is hard, red clay which is extremely difficult for grass seed to take root in. Clay also has poor drainage and any seed that does take root will be drowned or washed away in rain or when watered. I would have to till up the yard and add humus or light mulch to the soil before planting or sodding. That still doesn't solve the problem of trying to get grass to grow in the shade that covers half my yard. And considering that the dogs will just kill it again, I can't justify the time, energy, and expense just to make my yard "pretty" for a few weeks.
It looks very much like a commercial breeders set up to me. Certainly not how i would keep my dogs, but IMO, much better than individual kennelled areas and small run (as kennels usually are over here). The dogs have plenty of room to move around, the poo is obviously cleaned up, they have shelter and from their condition they look well fed.
Its not a pretty, immaculate breeding establishment, but i dont see anything cruel or unclean to be of concern in the pics.
We frequently have summer droughts and water restrictions here, too. Replanting grass in my yard won't be a simple process. The ground here is hard, red clay which is extremely difficult for grass seed to take root in. Clay also has poor drainage and any seed that does take root will be drowned or washed away in rain or when watered. I would have to till up the yard and add humus or light mulch to the soil before planting or sodding. That still doesn't solve the problem of trying to get grass to grow in the shade that covers half my yard. And considering that the dogs will just kill it again, I can't justify the time, energy, and expense just to make my yard "pretty" for a few weeks. I would rather put my money into health testing my dogs….but maybe that's just me. shrugs
I agree with you too. id save my money and use it for something worth using. I hear NC is alot of clay land
