Coat Color Inheritance in basenji
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And the fula thing is not that simple. In the US we describe a tri with bars through the cheek patches, with our without pips over the eyes, as a fula tri. And a black that may or may not (usually does) have some bleeding, or evidence of tan where the tan usually is on a tri, is called a fula black. These dogs may or may not come from two red dogs. But a genetically black basenji (Kk, or KK) cannot come from two red parents. And that is why most people feel that fula tris and blacks (at least as termed in the US) are genetically tri variations.
And seriously…this is not my area of expertise, so people correct me if I am wrong.
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To put the pedigree on the Zande site, you just have to email what you know to the woman in charge of the site. (I forgot her name). She also can look up AKC info if you give that to her.
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o ok i understand. Ya i mean i dont know ALOT about it, just as a general thing, i knew that a Fula black came from parents that were not black. I knew that in order to create a black puppy (not fula or recessive) it had to have a black parent. that is all i knew (or read anyways lol) and o ok i didnt know that. Ill have to contact the owner of the site and see if we can get them on there. Thanks!
but anyways does anyone have any idea how to help me? or answer my question?
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Quercus. Thanks for trying to explain. it helped a little but i still dont really get it. How do you know which is the dominant and recessive? So if my girls mom is a red and her dad is a black. the dad will have a dominant K and her mom will have a dominate Y? And how do you add all the other letters in there? Your explaining is helping I believe tho. :) thanks so much for helping!
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Quercus. Thanks for trying to explain. it helped a little but i still dont really get it. How do you know which is the dominant and recessive? So if my girls mom is a red and her dad is a black. the dad will have a dominant K and her mom will have a dominate Y? And how do you add all the other letters in there? Your explaining is helping I believe tho. :) thanks so much for helping!
Well, in the code notation, you know if the allele is dominant by whether it is upper case, or lower case. In real life, you know because you committed it to memory ;) based on someone else's research. I *know that red (Y) is dominant to tri (y) because of countless generations of that being the case with breedings.
So every being is given one set of alleles from the mom, and one from the dad, that come together to make an entire gene.
If your girl is red? right? the simplest assumption is that she is DDkkYY (pure for red)or DDkkYy(tri factored) So because we don't have dilute indentified in Basenjis all of the them should be DD, her dad had to be Kk because he gave her a recessive k, and her mom was clearly kk because she was red. Her mom and dad may have been RR or Rr, and we wouldn't know until a tri offspring popped out. If they were both Rr, they could both donate a r and end up with a tri puppy…that would look like this: DDkkYy -
To have the pedigree information put in the Basenji Database, e-mail Sally Wallis at sally.wallis@btopenworld.com with all the information. If none of the dogs in the pedigree are in the database you will have to give her all of the information. Please include registered name, registration number and registry, date of birth, color, sex-male or female, and if the dog you want registered has been bred give her the information for the sire of the pups and the pups. If you know any siblings/relatives and they are not in the database, give her that information too.
It does not matter what registry the dog may have and it is important to have non-AKC registered dogs in the database as one cannot find the information about them. The other registries such as APRI, CKC-Continental Kennel Club, UABR, etc. do not have an open registry like the AKC. She also accepts non-registered dogs.
Jennifer
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Well, in the code notation, you know if the allele is dominant by whether it is upper case, or lower case. In real life, you know because you committed it to memory ;) based on someone else's research. I *know that red (Y) is dominant to tri (y) because of countless generations of that being the case with breedings.
haha ya ill have to commit it to my memory too ;) hehe Thank you for this information. It is starting to become more clear :)
ok so if Y is a dominant trait to y, then that means ion order to whelp a tri puppy, since red is dominant, or unless the mother carries that recessive tri, A tri parent has to be present in the breeding?
So every being is given one set of alleles from the mom, and one from the dad, that come together to make an entire gene.
this makes alot of sense to me now! lol i never understood where all the things came from. but now i understand you get the information from both parents (wow i feel stupid because thats just common sense ;) haha)
If your girl is red? right? the simplest assumption is that she is DDkkYY (pure for red)or DDkkYy(tri factored) So because we don't have dilute indentified in Basenjis all of the them should be DD, her dad had to be Kk because he gave her a recessive k, and her mom was clearly kk because she was red. Her mom and dad may have been RR or Rr, and we wouldn't know until a tri offspring popped out. If they were both Rr, they could both donate a r and end up with a tri puppy…that would look like this: DDkkYy.
yes she is a red. ok so k is neither black nor brindle. So you have to fill the space in with another k right? so that is where you get the Kk KK or kk? and then DD is the dilute and since there isnt one in basenjis (or that has been found) then its DD. and then kk would be a red because its neither black nor brindle and Kk is black since the K is dominant for black gene. correct? ok and then the Y is the red. so…Do all dogs have the Y gene? even blacks? this is the part that i guess i get confused. ok i think am i starting to get this tho.
Thank SOO much Quercus! its really helping me out and i am very excited to learn about things like this! it excites me haha
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You do not need a Tri to get a Tri, but you need two Reds that carry the Tri gene. When we bred my Maggii, who we thought might be Tri factored to a for sure Tri Factored dog, we got 3 reds and 3 tris. If one of the parents are pure for red (Y), you will not get any Tris, you will most likely get Reds that are Tri factored
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Alright my turn. I missed the black connection in there. If tri-factored reds or tris make tris, Can blacks make tris?
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This may help if you're a visual learner:
http://anthro.palomar.edu/mendel/mendel_2.htm
It makes it much clearer in my mind.
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Alright my turn. I missed the black connection in there. If tri-factored reds or tris make tris, Can blacks make tris?
Yes..each gene that is represented by the letter pairing is at a different location on the chromosome…so think of it this way. YY (pure for red) Yy (looks red, carries tri, also called trifactored) or yy (tri). Every Basenji has ONE of these combinations. Then every Basenji has KK (black Basenji) or Kk (black basenji that can produce a not black basenji) and kk (not black basenji) Brindle is an on/off gene, so it cannot be ...you have to have brindle to get brindle. So, in other words, every Basenji is either red or tri, and the other genes cause that color to be masked, or covered over with their expression.
There are tri-factored blacks, and tri-factored brindles...which is what makes it so difficult for people who are trying NOT to breed trindles.
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Ok now i have a question. I am going to put the colors on here and see if someone can help me determine how i would go about seeing what she is.
Mom is a red and white. Dad is a black and white.
Moms mom and dad are Red and White and Black and white
Dads mom and dad are red and white and black and white.if you need further back i can go. but i guess i still dont understand how to for sure do that part. I am starting to get where everything comes from but i cant for some reason put it into use! lol
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Yes..each gene that is represented by the letter pairing is at a different location on the chromosome…so think of it this way. YY (pure for red) Yy (looks red, carries tri, also called trifactored) or yy (tri). Every Basenji has ONE of these combinations. Then every Basenji has KK (black Basenji) or Kk (black basenji that can produce a not black basenji) and kk (not black basenji) Brindle is an on/off gene, so it cannot be ...you have to have brindle to get brindle. So, in other words, every Basenji is either red or tri, and the other genes cause that color to be masked, or covered over with their expression.
OH! ok this makes ALOT more sense to me now! So they HAVe to have a Y and they HAVE to have a K and then…dont they have to have the D? but the break down of KK Kk and kk and then the YY Yy and yy is sooo much easier to follow now! Thank you Quercus! I didnt know you HAD to have a brindle to make a brindle. So Brindle is a recessive then?
WOW that makes soo much sense te more i read! haha Thank you!! :DThere are tri-factored blacks, and tri-factored brindles…which is what makes it so difficult for people who are trying NOT to breed trindles.
Ok but this i guess im not sure what this means. what is a tri factored brindle and a tri factored black have to do with breeding trindles. Trindles are the ones that have like a weird tri colored appearance but have like a brindle pattern on their cheeks, right? or brindle on their body? (which makes sense it would be a TRI-briNDLE lol wow im stupid sometimes haha!) but anyways how does having those matter?
You do not need a Tri to get a Tri, but you need two Reds that carry the Tri gene. When we bred my Maggii, who we thought might be Tri factored to a for sure Tri Factored dog, we got 3 reds and 3 tris. If one of the parents are pure for red (Y), you will not get any Tris, you will most likely get Reds that are Tri factored
ok ya that is what i thought. You have to have either a tri parent in the breeding OR you have to have two parents with the tri recessive gene (or maybe its not recessive that is just what i thought) but ok thank you :) Oh ya ok i think i remember reading somewhere that the pure red you cant get anything but reds but possibly with the tri factor. it makes sense. thank you :)
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This may help if you're a visual learner:
http://anthro.palomar.edu/mendel/mendel_2.htm
It makes it much clearer in my mind.
This is so funny because I am REALLLY good at Punnett squares but i guess i only am good at them if i know the beginning part. Since i cant figure out how to determine what she is, i dont know what to put at the top and along the side.
Would it be like this as an example
K k
Y KY Yk
y Ky kybut i thought there were only similar letters with eachother? idk this i guess confused me more lol thanks for the link tho :)
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You have to do a 16 square punnet square. So if both are tri factored then mom is kkYy and dad is KkYy then you need to find the gametes produced for each. Mom can produce kY and ky so you would have kY, kY, ky, ky for her side of the punnet. Dad can produce KY, Ky, kY, ky.
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You have to do a 16 square punnet square. So if both are tri factored then mom is kkYy and dad is KkYy then you need to find the gametes produced for each. Mom can produce kY and ky so you would have kY, kY, ky, ky for her side of the punnet. Dad can produce KY, Ky, kY, ky.
So her mom is kkYy because she is neither black nor brindle (kk) and because she is Red (Y) but carries a tri (y) gene because her grandparent is a tri? is that how you got that?
and then her dad would be Black(K) with …um....idk... and red because his parents were red(Y)? or...i guess im confused on this part. How did you get dads?
ok and how do you do a 16 punnett square? so mom can produce Red puppy (kY) and tri puppy? (ky) and Dad can produce KY (what is this one? a Black and Red? they are both dominant so which would this one be) and a black with a tri factor(Ky) and then a red puppy (kY) and then a Tri puppy?
is that correct? -
Would this be correct?
a tri with a RD mom and a TRI dad, would their "code" be
DDkkyyand would a BLK with a RD mom and BLK dad be
DDKkYyAnd Woulda RED with both parents RED be
DDkkYYand finally would a RD with a brindle mom and tri dad be
DDK^brkkYyJust seeing if i get this
Oh and with brindles, how does that work?
DDK^brkYY(red brindle?), DDK^brkYy(red brindle with tri factor?), DDK^brK^brYY(red with brindle factor??), DDK^br K^brYy…idk lol i dont get the brindle part of it.
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Since both parents have a tri grandparent they each have a 50% chance of having inherited the gene. Like Andrea said, until there is a tri offspring, you can't know for sure.
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Since both parents have a tri grandparent they each have a 50% chance of having inherited the gene. Like Andrea said, until there is a tri offspring, you can't know for sure.
o ok. so you wont know whether its a yy or a Yy? is that what you mean? that is the tri right? sorry i dont understand this part. How do you figure out the brindle part?
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lvoss i have a question. Do you have MSN messenger? I would like to do this quickly to figure it out but i cant really do that on here lol. If you do, would you be willing to talk with me on there so i could maybe figure this out more easily?
