Coat Color Inheritance in basenji

[misspodhradsky]

@Quercus:

Well, in the code notation, you know if the allele is dominant by whether it is upper case, or lower case. In real life, you know because you committed it to memory based on someone else's research. I *know that red (Y) is dominant to tri because of countless generations of that being the case with breedings.

haha ya ill have to commit it to my memory too hehe Thank you for this information. It is starting to become more clear

ok so if Y is a dominant trait to y, then that means ion order to whelp a tri puppy, since red is dominant, or unless the mother carries that recessive tri, A tri parent has to be present in the breeding?

@Quercus:

So every being is given one set of alleles from the mom, and one from the dad, that come together to make an entire gene.

this makes alot of sense to me now! lol i never understood where all the things came from. but now i understand you get the information from both parents (wow i feel stupid because thats just common sense haha)

@Quercus:

If your girl is red? right? the simplest assumption is that she is DDkkYY (pure for red)or DDkkYy(tri factored) So because we don't have dilute indentified in Basenjis all of the them should be DD, her dad had to be Kk because he gave her a recessive k, and her mom was clearly kk because she was red. Her mom and dad may have been RR or Rr, and we wouldn't know until a tri offspring popped out. If they were both Rr, they could both donate a r and end up with a tri puppy…that would look like this: DDkkYy.

yes she is a red. ok so k is neither black nor brindle. So you have to fill the space in with another k right? so that is where you get the Kk KK or kk? and then DD is the dilute and since there isnt one in basenjis (or that has been found) then its DD. and then kk would be a red because its neither black nor brindle and Kk is black since the K is dominant for black gene. correct? ok and then the Y is the red. so…Do all dogs have the Y gene? even blacks? this is the part that i guess i get confused. ok i think am i starting to get this tho.

Thank SOO much Quercus! its really helping me out and i am very excited to learn about things like this! it excites me haha

[tanza]

You do not need a Tri to get a Tri, but you need two Reds that carry the Tri gene. When we bred my Maggii, who we thought might be Tri factored to a for sure Tri Factored dog, we got 3 reds and 3 tris. If one of the parents are pure for red (Y), you will not get any Tris, you will most likely get Reds that are Tri factored

[etzbseder]

Alright my turn. I missed the black connection in there. If tri-factored reds or tris make tris, Can blacks make tris?

[agilebasenji]

This may help if you're a visual learner:

http://anthro.palomar.edu/mendel/mendel_2.htm

It makes it much clearer in my mind.

[Quercus]

@etzbseder:

Alright my turn. I missed the black connection in there. If tri-factored reds or tris make tris, Can blacks make tris?

Yes..each gene that is represented by the letter pairing is at a different location on the chromosome…so think of it this way. YY (pure for red) Yy (looks red, carries tri, also called trifactored) or yy (tri). Every Basenji has ONE of these combinations. Then every Basenji has KK (black Basenji) or Kk (black basenji that can produce a not black basenji) and kk (not black basenji) Brindle is an on/off gene, so it cannot be ...you have to have brindle to get brindle. So, in other words, every Basenji is either red or tri, and the other genes cause that color to be masked, or covered over with their expression.

There are tri-factored blacks, and tri-factored brindles...which is what makes it so difficult for people who are trying NOT to breed trindles.

[misspodhradsky]

Ok now i have a question. I am going to put the colors on here and see if someone can help me determine how i would go about seeing what she is.

Mom is a red and white. Dad is a black and white.
Moms mom and dad are Red and White and Black and white
Dads mom and dad are red and white and black and white.

if you need further back i can go. but i guess i still dont understand how to for sure do that part. I am starting to get where everything comes from but i cant for some reason put it into use! lol

[misspodhradsky]

@Quercus:

Yes..each gene that is represented by the letter pairing is at a different location on the chromosome…so think of it this way. YY (pure for red) Yy (looks red, carries tri, also called trifactored) or yy (tri). Every Basenji has ONE of these combinations. Then every Basenji has KK (black Basenji) or Kk (black basenji that can produce a not black basenji) and kk (not black basenji) Brindle is an on/off gene, so it cannot be ...you have to have brindle to get brindle. So, in other words, every Basenji is either red or tri, and the other genes cause that color to be masked, or covered over with their expression.

OH! ok this makes ALOT more sense to me now! So they HAVe to have a Y and they HAVE to have a K and then…dont they have to have the D? but the break down of KK Kk and kk and then the YY Yy and yy is sooo much easier to follow now! Thank you Quercus! I didnt know you HAD to have a brindle to make a brindle. So Brindle is a recessive then?
WOW that makes soo much sense te more i read! haha Thank you!!

@Quercus:

There are tri-factored blacks, and tri-factored brindles…which is what makes it so difficult for people who are trying NOT to breed trindles.

Ok but this i guess im not sure what this means. what is a tri factored brindle and a tri factored black have to do with breeding trindles. Trindles are the ones that have like a weird tri colored appearance but have like a brindle pattern on their cheeks, right? or brindle on their body? (which makes sense it would be a TRI-briNDLE lol wow im stupid sometimes haha!) but anyways how does having those matter?

@tanza:

You do not need a Tri to get a Tri, but you need two Reds that carry the Tri gene. When we bred my Maggii, who we thought might be Tri factored to a for sure Tri Factored dog, we got 3 reds and 3 tris. If one of the parents are pure for red (Y), you will not get any Tris, you will most likely get Reds that are Tri factored

ok ya that is what i thought. You have to have either a tri parent in the breeding OR you have to have two parents with the tri recessive gene (or maybe its not recessive that is just what i thought) but ok thank you Oh ya ok i think i remember reading somewhere that the pure red you cant get anything but reds but possibly with the tri factor. it makes sense. thank you

[misspodhradsky]

@agilebasenji:

This may help if you're a visual learner:

http://anthro.palomar.edu/mendel/mendel_2.htm

It makes it much clearer in my mind.

This is so funny because I am REALLLY good at Punnett squares but i guess i only am good at them if i know the beginning part. Since i cant figure out how to determine what she is, i dont know what to put at the top and along the side.

Would it be like this as an example

K k
Y KY Yk
y Ky ky

but i thought there were only similar letters with eachother? idk this i guess confused me more lol thanks for the link tho

[lvoss]

You have to do a 16 square punnet square. So if both are tri factored then mom is kkYy and dad is KkYy then you need to find the gametes produced for each. Mom can produce kY and ky so you would have kY, kY, ky, ky for her side of the punnet. Dad can produce KY, Ky, kY, ky.

[misspodhradsky]

@lvoss:

You have to do a 16 square punnet square. So if both are tri factored then mom is kkYy and dad is KkYy then you need to find the gametes produced for each. Mom can produce kY and ky so you would have kY, kY, ky, ky for her side of the punnet. Dad can produce KY, Ky, kY, ky.

So her mom is kkYy because she is neither black nor brindle (kk) and because she is Red (Y) but carries a tri gene because her grandparent is a tri? is that how you got that?

and then her dad would be Black(K) with …um....idk... and red because his parents were red(Y)? or...i guess im confused on this part. How did you get dads?

ok and how do you do a 16 punnett square? so mom can produce Red puppy (kY) and tri puppy? (ky) and Dad can produce KY (what is this one? a Black and Red? they are both dominant so which would this one be) and a black with a tri factor(Ky) and then a red puppy (kY) and then a Tri puppy?
is that correct?

[misspodhradsky]

Would this be correct?

a tri with a RD mom and a TRI dad, would their "code" be
DDkkyy

and would a BLK with a RD mom and BLK dad be
DDKkYy

And Woulda RED with both parents RED be
DDkkYY

and finally would a RD with a brindle mom and tri dad be
DDK^brkkYy

Just seeing if i get this

Oh and with brindles, how does that work?

DDK^brkYY(red brindle?), DDK^brkYy(red brindle with tri factor?), DDK^brK^brYY(red with brindle factor??), DDK^br K^brYy…idk lol i dont get the brindle part of it.

[lvoss]

Since both parents have a tri grandparent they each have a 50% chance of having inherited the gene. Like Andrea said, until there is a tri offspring, you can't know for sure.

[misspodhradsky]

@lvoss:

Since both parents have a tri grandparent they each have a 50% chance of having inherited the gene. Like Andrea said, until there is a tri offspring, you can't know for sure.

o ok. so you wont know whether its a yy or a Yy? is that what you mean? that is the tri right? sorry i dont understand this part. How do you figure out the brindle part?

[misspodhradsky]

lvoss i have a question. Do you have MSN messenger? I would like to do this quickly to figure it out but i cant really do that on here lol. If you do, would you be willing to talk with me on there so i could maybe figure this out more easily?

[misspodhradsky]

Oh and with brindles, how does that work?

DDK^brkYY(red brindle?), DDK^brkYy(red brindle with tri factor?), DDK^brK^brYY(red with brindle factor??), DDK^br K^brYy(dark brindle?)…idk lol i dont get the brindle part of it.

[lvoss]

Brindle is on the K series. If a Black and white carries brindle it will only produce blacks and brindles. The amount of striping is not related to the whether they have one copy of the allele or two, there is some other controlling factor not yet known.

[lvoss]

I don't have MSN Messanger.

A dog that is red must have at least one Y, the other allele could be Y or y. If it is y then the dog can produce tri. With a black dog, you have to take a guess by what the parents and grandparents are about what is at the locus for red and tri.

[misspodhradsky]

@lvoss:

Brindle is on the K series. If a Black and white carries brindle it will only produce blacks and brindles. The amount of striping is not related to the whether they have one copy of the allele or two, there is some other controlling factor not yet known.

What if a red and white carries the brindle? will it only produce red and brindle?

[lvoss]

Red and whites cannot "carry" brindle. Brindle (K^br) is dominant to k which allows for clear red/tri coats.

[misspodhradsky]

@lvoss:

I don't have MSN Messanger.

A dog that is red must have at least one Y, the other allele could be Y or y. If it is y then the dog can produce tri. With a black dog, you have to take a guess by what the parents and grandparents are about what is at the locus for red and tri.

o ok that is fine. I appreciate you responding to my questions. I hope i am not bothering you. I am just really curious.

Ok so a red will ALWAYS have a Y, capital Y? correct? and then the other is a determining factor? if its Y its a pure red and if its a y then its a tri. and so if its a black dog, that is what everyone is talking about when they say "you have to wait to get a puppy and see if its a tri"? and if it doesnt create a Tri then the Locus is a red? is that right? So do you have to breed it to a Tri to determine this hidden "guessing" factor? i mean to prove it that is..