I think Oakley sees my point because he will look to the object my hand is touching…most often times at least..he never looks at my face for a cue of to acknowledge my words..if I throw something and tell him to go get it (and he doesn't see the throw)..it's impossible to direct him towards it..he's silly that way- no direction!
Gizmo brutally attacked by German Shepard (warning! a little blood in the pictures).
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As a frequent dog park visitor myself, I am shaken and near tears reading this. I'm so, so sorry that this had to happen. I wish you both a speedy path to recovery. Please keep us updated.
I agree with others who say to file the police report now. Yes, scuffles at dog parks are a risk you take whenever you go, but most of the time it's just noise and posturing (at least based on my experience). However, a dog (and his owner) who crosses the line to this degree should no longer be welcome, in my opinion. It doesn't matter if the other person "warned" you before – he is still responsible.
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Oh, poor Gizmo, that looks like a nasty wound on his neck, I hope it heals up very quickly and he has no lasting damage, physically or mentally!
I dont think you should be so hard on yourself. You did what you thought was right at the time, hindsight is a wonderful thing but it can drive you mad! I was in a similar position to you a few months ago (though thankfully no one got so badly injured!!), Maya was attacked by a much larger, very aggressive dog. I did exactly what you did and picked her up. I know you're not "supposed" to but it is the natural instinct when you're dog is being attacked to get them out of danger. Dont beat yourself up about that!
If you can get any info on the GSD owner I would definately contact the police. If the dog has done it before it should not be going to the dog park and should not be allowed off-lead around other dogs, the owner is being incredibly irresponsible by doing that, if he will freely admit that his dog will kill another dog (indicates it maybe has before???) then it has no business playing with other dogs in a public park, that might sound harsh but a dog that big could easily kill a smaller dog by picking it up and shaking it, if the owner is not willing to control his dog then the police need to get involved.
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For what it's worth, I have come across aggressive dogs at the dog park, but usually the owner has that dog on a leash and controlled. A lot of times they even go the lengths to get a muzzle or guard so that they can't attack another dog.
I respect those that still want their dog to get some socialization but know the risks, but if someone thinks they can allow an aggressive (potentially unstable) dog off leash w/o any control to wander around a dog park, they need to be kept out. It's too much of a risk to other dogs.
And small scuffle is one thing, but if another dog's life is taken, it's not something that can be fixed.
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Leashing a dog at an off leash park is only going to increase frustration and escalate aggression. Muzzling can do the same thing.
Dogs don't need dog parks and running around with other dogs to have a fulfilled life. Though some enjoy it, many do not and some of the bad behavior seen is the dog trying to communicate that it is not enjoying the situation. When the owners and the other dogs don't take the lower level cues that the dog has had enough, it escalates to higher and higher level behaviors to get its point across.
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Oh, I am so sorry…poor Giz....I don't really have any words of advice..only comfort. I always pick up my dogs if I am in doubt......I know it isn't supposed to be the 'right' thing to do...but, it has worked so far.
I can't believe that someone would bring a dog known to be aggressive to a dog park...accident waiting to happen...
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I am a huge dog park advocate, usually. We leave if there is an aggressive dog, retreat is the better part of valor sometimes ! And as the Shepherd's owner basically stated that his dog might KILL another dog, I think this attack should be reported. One dog annoying another is usually stopped by the dogs with posturing and soft-mouthed biting/snarking…not really serious.
I would have picked up my dog too, and kicked the crap out of the shepherd if he got close. I guess the alternative would have been to grab the shepherd after the first attack, but there is a risk of being bitten yourself.
Dog parks are great when they are great, but there are dangers. We have been known to drive right past the park when we see a certain car we recognize, just not worth the risk.
I am glad that it was a deep skin wound, without muscle damage. And you are a loving and caring owner to dive in and rescue Gizmo! -
Thanks for the replies.
I called the police and they said it was not worth the paper it was written on without a name. So I will do a police report once I manage to find out his name. I am going to have to take frequent trips to the park in hopes I see him.
As for the DVD on the language of dogs, yes I know about it. And I remember a lot from the dog class I went on, but in a situation like this everything is blanked out, your Adrenalin is pumping and all you want is to save your dog…books/dvds be damned! lol!
But point taken on stopping him to growl, I'll stop doing that.I don't think it's a good idea for me to stay away from the park. I don't want Gizmo to develop a fear of big dogs, but I will be writing a letter to the city to ask about splitting the park so we can have a section for big dogs. Far too often do the small ones get picked on and have to leave the park.
But I will be leaving the park whenever I see that dog enter.
If it wasn't for the fact that the owner was on top of his dog I think I might have taken my foot and slammed down on that dogs torso with the one goal of killing it...I really think I would of. The desire to kick that dog was rushing trough my mind.
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Oh my, NerdyDogOwner - I can't tell you how awful I felt reading about the horrible incident you and Gizmo had. For what it's worth, I would have done pretty much the same thing. So much goes through your head so quickly when such a thing happens. You wind up doing your best and then you try to put as much of the incident behind you. Guilt will be a natural feeling, but don't beat up on yourself. In what was probably one of the most horrible times in your life you checked Gizmo out carefully and got him vet care when he needed it. Gizmo is going to be okay. You? Don't worry if it takes a bit of time for you to get over this. We are all here for you and will listen to all of your feelings as you heal. And make sure to keep us updated on how Gizmo heals. Biggest hugs to both of you.
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I think you've done all you could - until you get the owner's name there's nothing the city or police can do. I would also post a note at the dog park describing the shepherd and what he did to your dog to warn other dogs. Maybe that owner will even see it and come forward.
Now a question to the group - why should you not pick up the dog in such a situation? Is it just because you put yourself in danger? I have found myself in this situation a couple of times and have always grabbed my dog and often held above my head. But usually I've been able to read the other dog's signals before a real fight started. I have had other dogs try to jump on me to get to mine. I just couldn't bear seeing a true fight break out and there's no way I'm just going to let mine work the fight out with the other and not try to intervene.
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My heart goes out to Gizmo and you Nerdydogowner. Never beat yourself up - we all act automatically, I think, (I know I do) to protect our beloved basenjis. I do hope that Gizmo won't be traumatised and I think you are doing just the right thing to try and prevent this dog ever again attacking another. The owner is totally to blame.
I feel particularly sore about this as one of the dogs I bred was actually killed by a German Shepherd who was totally out of control, despite the owner having been warned many times by the police to keep it muzzled and under control.
Re picking up dogs under attack. I think the warning may be because of the danger of being bitten, although I'm not sure. I don't advocate it because unless you are able to hold the attacked dog very high, the other dog can jump up and do the captive dog a lot of damage.
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Yepp, that's it. The main reason is you are endangering yourself. The attacking dog might get a hold of you and do some serious damage.
And if the attacker manages to get a good hold/bite, then gravity will pretty much do the rest and rip/pull…which can result in a nasty sight.
I didn't notice till today that I had several claw scratches on my legs from the Shepard trying to get at Gizmo when I picked him up.
Again guys, I want to thank you for the kind and supporting words. It has helped me from feeling so bad.
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My experience is that picking the dog up can escalate aggression. You see it happen when two dogs are posturing, the standing over each other, stiff legs, hard eyes, etc and then someone picks one of the dogs up the other will pounce in that moment and try to attack the dog. Most of the time they will stay focused on the dog as they leap up to bite at it but can occassionally bite you.
It is one reason why learning body language is so important and practicing recall in many situations. As soon as the posturing starts, the best course of action is to call your dog to you and then you can pick them up and leave. The earlier you can spot the behavior and redirect, the better. It is really important to also realize that many people punish out the middle signals in the escalation so there are many of dogs who go from low level signals like stiff legs skip the growling and tooth displays and go straight to biting.
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I would have picked him up too, then I probably would have kicked the crap out of the german while holding Giz above my head. Over protective mama-style! Screaming and yelling like a true harpy! Then the owner… oh boy, would I go crazy on him! We'd see how he likes getting bitten on the neck!
All in all, I think you handled it as best as you could in the situation. (yay for not biting the owner) If the owner has any sense of shame, he probably won't go back to the dog park, so I'd ask around to some of the regulars to see if they know him.
Give Gizmo lots of love from Blaze and me, we wish him a speedy recovery. -
aww im so sorry you guys had to go through that!
I personally dont go to dog parks for this reason, strange dogs are unpredictable and unfortunately you cannot trust the general public to not bring aggressive or fearful dogs there. People have this idea in their head that their dog needs other dog interactions and needs doggy friends, which is really not true. Plus there are a lot safer ways to socialize your dog. You also cant trust the dogs at parks to be healthy and not carry any sort of communicable disease. -
Nerdy,
My heart goes out to you. Long long long time ago, I had a little white mutt (probably a maltese mix), and she got attacked by a pit bull. We were coming out of the apartment complex, she was on leash, the other guy and the pit bull were coming in, and the dog was not on the leash. He instantly grabbed hold of my Asya and shook her, and the owner did nothing. I was probably about 14 or 15, I wasn't even thinking, I was freaked out, I kicked the crap out of that pit bull as the owner just stood there watching. Then I grabbed my dog and hid behind the door (how lucky the door was there). Luckily no serious damage was done. So I know how you feel - your first instinct is to protect your baby, not to analyze the situation.
Good luck and speedy recovery to Gizmo!
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I have been told by our trainer that if you lift a Dog you are elevating them in status, so maybe the attacking dog escalates it's attack to challenge it's status?
I'm sure i would have reacted the same even knowing this, it's a knee jerk reaction to protect your Dog.
Malaika does realy like to play with other Dogs and i feel she should mix with her own species, however i am trying to do it in as safe a way as possible.
When we go to the park(public, not Dog) i tend to let her off lead if no Dogs are around and try to get her back before we meet other Dogs. Once i've met up with the owner and chatted i let her off if everything seems well. I must admit it is nerve wracking though and i feel over protective, but reading this about poor Gizmo and Helena's pup makes me think i'm right.
Has Dog society become more aggressive like the human one ? or has it always been like this ? -
aww im so sorry you guys had to go through that!
I personally dont go to dog parks for this reason, strange dogs are unpredictable and unfortunately you cannot trust the general public to not bring aggressive or fearful dogs there. People have this idea in their head that their dog needs other dog interactions and needs doggy friends, which is really not true. Plus there are a lot safer ways to socialize your dog. You also cant trust the dogs at parks to be healthy and not carry any sort of communicable disease.Well, it's a shame you stay away from dog parks due to your "fear". And besides, everyone in the park does not know what your dog is like either…they too are worried your dog might attack theirs...the trust goes both ways. You are apart of "the general public" yourself.
To be fair, we are in constant danger...never know when some madman might pull a gun etc. Same with diseases, most of the time you get sick is because you catch it from someone else just by going to work or the store.
Dogs need socializing and can get depressed just like us, and the dog park is one of the best places for Gizmo to be "free". And with strict leash laws, it's the only place where he can run free.
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Dog parks tend to be bad because people stand around chatting and are not really doing anything to manage their dogs while they interact. There seems to be less issues at places where the people keep moving and therefore the dogs keep moving to keep track of their people and have more motivation to check in frequently. The interactions between the dogs seem to be easier to redirect since they are on the move and not so focused on each other.
As for dogs, who slip away from their owners and attack other dogs in public, they are a whole other issue. Many didn't get ideal starts in life, either genetically or socialization wise and many don't get all of their basic needs met. Owners seem to think food, water, and shelter are all the need to provide neglecting companionship, physical exercise and mental exercise. Many people who own dogs don't seem to understand that it takes time and effort to train and relationship build with their dog. They are under the false impression that dogs should just know how to behave and want to please them simply because.
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People have this idea in their head that their dog needs other dog interactions and needs doggy friends, which is really not true.
This is absolutely the truth. I have taken my dogs to dog parks and I have only 1 who actually enjoys it and even she is not that keen on it as she gets older. My dogs do not like to interact with strange dogs and not all of them are even big on having dog friends.
Dogs do not need the dog park to have a fulfilled life and there are other ways to get socialization that carry less risk than dog parks. Most dogs would be just as happy, and in some cases happier, to have your undivided attention doing something together.
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Well, it's a shame you stay away from dog parks due to your "fear". And besides, everyone in the park does not know what your dog is like either…they too are worried your dog might attack theirs...the trust goes both ways. You are apart of "the general public" yourself.
To be fair, we are in constant danger...never know when some madman might pull a gun etc. Same with diseases, most of the time you get sick is because you catch it from someone else just by going to work or the store.
Dogs need socializing and can get depressed just like us, and the dog park is one of the best places for Gizmo to be "free". And with strict leash laws, it's the only place where he can run free.
Im not afraid, Im realistic, as what happened to you is actually VERY common. I would much rather have dogs I know (temperment and health wise) over to my house, or their house for playdates with my dog, then to allow him to run freely in a large area with a bunch of dogs and owners I dont know.
And yah danger can happen anywhere, but if i am in a room full of 30 different people who are getting excited over something (not only happy excited but including arguements-which happen frequently between dogs at parks if you watch their body language) and some of those people have guns, then the liklihood of someone pulling a gun on someone else raises, because you are purposely in a scenario that allows it.Dogs do not need dog friends, adequate activity, physical and mental, being allowed to socialize with their family (human or otherwise) is more then enough for any dog to not get depressed. If your dog suffers from depression then you need to look at you and your dog, and not other people to fix it.
Research dog behaviour, social and pack, you will see what I am saying.
