Breeder not doing Fanconi testing?? Do I just walk away?

[Mango]

I just got off the phone with a breeder here in Alberta who, aside from seeming very reluctant to talk to me at all, told me point blank she doesn't believe in Fanconi testing her dogs (!) and said that "when they find the gene, I'll test them." I also asked if they were tested for eye or hip problems, and she said no.

Does anyone have any insight into this bizarre view? I'm a little confused, after listening to other breeders who are insistent on testing their dogs…

Should I take the time to get to know this lady's dogs? Should I walk away?

I guess I'll have to get an out-of-province puppy after all.

[lvoss]

How would you feel if the puppy you bought from a breeder turned out to be Affected and you know there is a test that could have prevented that from happening?

I would walk away. To me, it really doesn't matter to me why they aren't testing, there is no good reason not to do health testing to make informed breeding decisions.

[tanza]

In my opinion, I would run, not just walk away. Not only about the Fanconi testing but the lack of any other testing.. and the attitude on top of it about testing.

[lisastewart]

Run, find a reputable breeder who does test. So glad that you will consider going elsewehre, too many people are set on the idea of getting the available puppy only to have it sicken and die later on. I think you have found a BYB or puppy mill not a breeder.

[sharronhurlbut]

My feeling is why have a dog you will love, just to lose it to an ugly death early? Find a breeder who cares about the dogs AND the folks they sell them to…
Get a dog who could be with you for 15+ years.

[Mango]

Thanks, everyone! I'm glad I trusted my instinct and got off the phone. I'm surprised, it's a fairly well-known breeder, listed on a lot of reputable sites… but oh well!
It worked out for the best, the next breeder on my list to call is actually closer, and does extensive health testing on all of their dogs, and the lady was really nice on the phone. Actually, I think someone on here has a puppy from her.
So I'm going to go visit them soon and maybe get put on a list for their next years litter.

You guys are amazing!

[nobarkus]

So she wants to keep the Fanconi disease going besides selling the pups to people who really love them only to find later in life the dog has the disease and is heart broken trying keep it from dying! Nice!

[ShelbyJ]

I agree with the others. Definitely RUN and don't look back. I'm not a breeder….and I'm not a basenji owner yet....but health testing with any breed is important. I would definitely not consider buying a puppy from any breeder who doesn't care to health test their own dogs and the puppies. There are breeders out there who will talk to you, answer all your questions, and test their dogs. Keep looking for the right breeder. That's what I'm doing....looking for the right breeder.

[sinbaje]

There is only one active basenji breeder I can find online from Alberta, Canada. I notice that this breeder is not a member breeder of the Basenji Club of Canada or America. I also notice this breeders kennel name shows up generically a lot under dogs in Canada etc. but not necessarily linked from other truly reputable basenji breeders.

Looking at the website they had 3 litters this past season; that's a lot of untested puppies. They do seem to be active (and successful) in the Canadian show ring but I have to question their statement: "Our focus has always been quality, health, and temperament in red, black, and tricolour." When OFA only sports one dog listed under their kennel name it is kind of hard for me to swallow health testing being a focus of thiers.

"My" AB breeder did test at least one of her dogs and I can well imagine she did not like the result. Perhaps that is why she is resistant to test more and is adamant the testing is faulty (assming they are one and the same)?? Of course the downside to logic such as this (the test must be faulty because I got a bad result) is continuing to perpetuate the very problem they are choosing to ignore - leaving puppy people to pick up the pieces - in this instance - 15 puppies from 2009 breedings. Sad.

I would run like h-e-double toothpicks in the opposite direction and be thankful I did.

---

V transmission

[Kipawa]

Here's a comment from someone on this forum who is not a breeder, but is someone who wants one of these darling dogs in the future. I would not give that breeder the time of day. When I get my basenji, I want it to be from someone who really cares about the breed itself - promoting good health and good standards within the breed. I want my puppy to be from someone who not only does numerous tests, but who also breeds for quality and great disposition. I want to know that if I have any concerns once I get my puppy home that the breeder is going to be there for me when I need some advice as my basenji grows up. Please don't give any thought to a breeder who does any less than this. I know I won't.

[Mango]

The whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
All I have to say is, THANK GOODNESS I RESEARCHED /FIRST/ AND KNEW WHAT TO ASK!

Sinbaje - that's the one. I was initally pretty impressed, since, as you say, they're pretty active and successful… but yeah. Just repulsive.

[tanza]

@Mango:

The whole thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
All I have to say is, THANK GOODNESS I RESEARCHED /FIRST/ AND KNEW WHAT TO ASK!

Sinbaje - that's the one. I was initally pretty impressed, since, as you say, they're pretty active and successful… but yeah. Just repulsive.

And you are to be commended for reseaching first, learning what questions to ask… and not just to settle on the first puppy breeder you find... and/or believe what you hear or read.

There are many breeders that claim to be responsible, but turn out to be not so... responsible...

[khanis]

Like I mentioned previously, you are welcome to contact me off the boards and I will get you contact information for Bob (in Drumheller).
They may possible have one of the pups left from the litter this fall. They are just 12 wks old and came from a Clear x Carrier breeding.

I have no clue who this person is, but would like to know, as I am sure they will approach Bob with his dogs when they start the pups in the show ring this summer. Linda, could you E me that info? Thanks!

[Mango]

Sorry, Khanis, miscommunication, I thought for some reason you wanted me to leave my e-mail address in the my introduction board but I will for sure contact you directly off the boards.
I'll also e-mail you the name of the breeder in question.
Thanks.

[khanis]

So I looked at her three litters.
Frankly, I don't have an issue with 3 litters.
I had two here, but I am home more than most and I have 2 kids helping with the dogs.. and I only have 5 dogs aside from having puppies.

What I have an issue with is the breedings.
First, not a single sire/dam is Fanconi Tested.

In the litter she posted that was whelped on 10-2-09…
the dam's dam produced Fanconi, and there fore she could test as a carrier.
In the 2nd litter, the sire has a sire that is AT LEAST a carrier, as he has sired an affected.
In the third litter, the dam is a littermate to the dam of the 1st litter.. so she could be at least a carrier also.

There is AT LEAST one Shamaron Fanconi Affected basenji. "Kofi" Shamaron's Kofi Utundu lives with the folks that bought a bitch from me.
Those dogs are all closely related... so this reeks of poor breeding practices.
BTW....
He tested that boy at MY request... since he was still intact and he was neutered within a month of getting the AFS results.
Bob was very responsible, as he didn't want to perpetuate any issues or have any owners go through what he's gone through in the past.

I didn't know anything about this lady before, now all I can say is that she is beyond irresponsible. She is purposely breeding dogs that could have questionable test results.
INCREDIBLY IRRESPONSIBLE in my own opinion.
My guess is that she has never lived with an AFS...
that is what I see in her breeding...

SAD.
Not a breeder worth considering, for a companion, or anything else for that matter.

[Maya]

Well done for walking away from this breeder.

I cannot think of any valid reason for not using the health tests available, i can only imagine it is to save money. Though, even being from the UK and having to send the swabs to America for testing, the fanconi tests still came in hundreds of pounds less than the xray/DNA tests i have to do on my labs, so it is a cheap test really!

As dog breeders we are lucky to have these tests available to use to ensure that we are not producing pups with a likelihood of developing these awful diseases, it makes me angry when people care more about profit than their pups. One person in my other breed pugs refuses to hemivertebra test her stud dog as it is "not in her lines"… Now, owning a pug with HV i can see that this dog has all the subtle signs of having it himself so i suspect the reason she is not testing him (or admitting to have had him tested positive) is because she will be losing her ?500 a time stud fee... Disgusting really. So the excuse "my dogs dont have it" usually makes me more suspicious of a breeder.

[Basenjimamma]

Mango..I commend you for doing your research BEFORE getting attached to a puppy or even purchasing a dog..many, including myself, does it the other way around…

Good luck in finding that perfect little bundle..I know you will be very happy when you do.

[khanis]

@Maya:

So the excuse "my dogs dont have it" usually makes me more suspicious of a breeder.

As I noted on the breedings…
the sire and dams of those litters HAVE produced Fanconi, therefore she has carriers in the midst and DOES have the mutant gene there.

There are breeders that I know of that state that "they tested as p. Fanconi Clear, as we would have expected" yet they are breeding IND and CAR basenjis.
The CAR dogs carry the mutant gene and we are told to treat the IND dogs as if they carry the gene as well [until the direct test is established, we can not assume otherwise].
This type of outward thinking is ludicrous.

Unless one's kennel of basenjis are ALL Fanconi Clear they carry the mutant gene, and can produce it.

[lvoss]

@khanis:

Unless one's kennel of basenjis are ALL Fanconi Clear they carry the mutant gene, and can produce it.

And even if the whole kennel is Probably Clear the breeder should still be testing every animal prior to breeding because it is a linked marker test and there is no such thing as Clear By Parentage with Linked Marker Tests.

[Patty]

Ivoss - this is one of the questions I had about testing. I do know of breeders here who don't bother to test puppies from parents with Probably Clear results and wondered why. Possibly they are intending to do so if/when they breed - I just don't know.