time to see the vet
For Sale: Basenji?s Two Males and Two Females for Sale in Idaho, Twin Falls Full AK
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Duh, Robyn. Thanks. My brain was definitely not working last night! Sigh.
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Did I read it correctly that these puppies have NOT been tested for Fanconi?
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Looking at the pic of your "black and white" puppy, I can say with certainty it is definately NOT and black and white. It is hard to tell from the pictures if it is a black, brindle, and white or a black, tan, and white though I think black, brindle, and white. As a breeder, you should be familiar with common basenji colors.
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Did I read it correctly that these puppies have NOT been tested for Fanconi?
Looks like the puppies have not been tested but the parents have.
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Did I read it correctly that these puppies have NOT been tested for Fanconi?
If the sire is clear, the pups could be carriers.
Normally we test our puppies for Fanconi Syndrome but this year due to me working in Alaska and my wife being in Thailand, this batch of puppies are untested. Last year?s litter was 50/50. <<
This "batch".. they aren't cookies btw. And actually your comment is a lie.. last year's "batch" (from your then only one year old stud), had FOUR positive and 2 probably clear… 4/6 is not 50 percent, it is 66.67 percent.
EDITED NOTE: positive, as in CARRIERS… should be obvious since I listed the actual test results below but to avoid more confusion.Offspring Registration Birthdate Sex FANCONI SYNDROME
BRINDLE HP36381305 Jan 11 2010 M BJ-FAC3048/1M-NOPI-CAR
DARK BRINDLE HP36381304 Jan 11 2010 M BJ-FAC3056/1M-NOPI
LIGHT BRINDLE HP36381303 Jan 11 2010 M BJ-FAC3063/1M-NOPI-CAR
RED/WHITE MALE HP36381302 Jan 11 2010 M BJ-FAC3070/1M-NOPI-CAR
RED/WHITE FWMALE HP36381306 Jan 11 2010 F BJ-FAC3069/1F-NOPI-CAR
BLACK/WHITE FEMALE HP36381301 Jan 11 2010 F BJ-FAC3047/1F-NOPI -
If the sire is clear, the pups could be carriers.
Normally we test our puppies for Fanconi Syndrome but this year due to me working in Alaska and my wife being in Thailand, this batch of puppies are untested. Last year?s litter was 50/50. <<
This "batch".. they aren't cookies btw. And actually your comment is a lie.. last year's "batch" (from your then only one year old stud), had FOUR positive and 2 probably clear… 4/6 is not 50 percent, it is 66.67 percent.
Offspring Registration Birthdate Sex FANCONI SYNDROME
BRINDLE HP36381305 Jan 11 2010 M BJ-FAC3048/1M-NOPI-CAR
DARK BRINDLE HP36381304 Jan 11 2010 M BJ-FAC3056/1M-NOPI
LIGHT BRINDLE HP36381303 Jan 11 2010 M BJ-FAC3063/1M-NOPI-CAR
RED/WHITE MALE HP36381302 Jan 11 2010 M BJ-FAC3070/1M-NOPI-CAR
RED/WHITE FWMALE HP36381306 Jan 11 2010 F BJ-FAC3069/1F-NOPI-CAR
BLACK/WHITE FEMALE HP36381301 Jan 11 2010 F BJ-FAC3047/1F-NOPIThey had puppies that tested positive for Fanconi last year?
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Heinz…I believe she meant "carrier" and not affected...
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You do no help to the breed by breeding to produce pets. You really don't. Not at any price. Only reported testing:
SIMBA THE BASENJI KING HP32463703 BASENJI M BRINDLE & WHITE Jun 10 2009 6 BJ-FAC2608/6M-NOPI FANCONI SYNDROME
Maybe I am tired, but it says 6 yrs old but then birthdate makes him 2.
http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1374108#animalNo records coming up for Tippy Tigress. In fact I don't find a tippy tigress in akc either. Nothing for tigress, and under tippy/basenji:
Reg. Number Dog Name
HC112116 Tippy Boy
HB642291 Tippy Lady Of Mesa
HD855797 Tippy Obsinare Shaundel
HC374509 Tippy Of Ti-Mungai
HC077203 Tippy Two Of Valjoh's Kristy LeeSad.
Debbie, what do you mean by not breeding to produce pets? Aren't they all pets
? I mean, breeding with disregard for the standard would be counter productive, but so would breeding for disregard for temperament, health, or other any other good "pet" traits. -
I think what Debra means, is that every litter produces pets but breeding simply to sell pet puppies is not beneficial to the breed especially when rescue has so many young dogs that need homes.
Responsible breeding means a lot more than simply taking to fanconi tested dogs and having puppies. These puppies should have been spoken for before the breeding ever took place.
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I love the puppy on last picture
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I agree. It seems sometime people on forums tend to get riled quickly. I'd like to give this breeder the benefit of the doubt. However, the fact that they have 4 pups "left over" leads me to believe they didn't have a waiting list or anything like that.
I don't have a B yet, but i've been on the list for about 5 months on a pup from a litter that was born on the 29th of December. One of the many reasons I this breed was that its rarity usually leads to a high percentage of responsible breeding. Or at least thats been my experience.
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That's not a black/white, it's a trindle (black, brindle, and white).
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they have these pups advertised on another site domesticsale
http://www.domesticsale.com/Classifieds/410068.html
nothing about testing mentioned in this ad
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I meant positive carriers. As I actually STATED, since the the sire/dam are a probably clear and a carrier, the pups won't HAVE fanconi.
It seems sometime people on forums tend to get riled quickly. I'd like to give this breeder the benefit of the doubt.
One of the many reasons I this breed was that its rarity usually leads to a high percentage of responsible breeding. Or at least thats been my experience.
And yes, I meant breeding to have puppies to sell for pets. Breeding should be to improve the breed, to enhance it. Not to be a business producing "batches" of puppies in order to make money selling them.
Sadly, that "higher percent" of responsible breeding is starting to fade… hence the flood of dogs into rescue with several dozen from one place in FL and the person having many more churning out in his other location still.
Nor did I have to give the person benefit of doubt or guess... the testing and lack there of, the proof that he bred his stud before it was a year old, that the ONLY test was fanconi, that the sire/dam and behind it almost no testing (one had hips I think), no titles... right there on OFA site. We won't even get into not knowing coat colors. People should not even think about breeding til they know the genetics of the breed they are considering. Dear spirits, I am VERY good on Rottie genetics, and I wouldn't even call my self a neophyte with Basenji, and even I understand bare basics of Basenjis coat colors.
And in fact, more bad stuff... the sire and dam of Tippy are BOTH CARRIERS... That part of her pups not carriers is good news for her.
TAMMIES TIPPY TIGRESS
http://www.offa.org/display.html?appnum=1374109#animal
Registration: HP28414906 (AKC) Sire: HP02801001
Breed: BASENJI Dam: HP02954806
Sex: F *Titles:
Color: BRINDLE & WHITE CHIC #:
Birthdate: Dec 11 2007Sire/Dam Registration Birthdate Sex Relation FANCONI SYNDROME
MALIK REGAL TIGER HP02801001 Dec 2 2002 M Sire BJ-FAC1228/60M-NOPI-CAR
MERTLE FAITHFUL LADY HP02954806 Dec 9 2002 F Dam BJ-FAC1230/59F-NOPI-CAR -
A responsible breeder would also be registering them correctly.
The PP are correct… you cannot get a black/white without breeding to one and there is clearly tan cheek markings on your "black/white" therefore it is not a black/white.I did not see any other health testing on your sire/dam... so do you know what issues could be passed down with these breedings?
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I may get lambasted because of what I'm going to say, but if so, so be it.
1. There's a section here called "For Sale", with a specific format to present your information. That format was followed.
2. People are allowed to sell basenjis on other websites.
I hope people who have already posted would re-read their posts. Several people comment that "A responsible breeder", inferring that this person is NOT a responsible breeder. I don't think that's fair. We don't "know" this person, and yes, there are several breeders on here that I feel that I know, because they post often, and I sincerely respect their opinions. They truly help all of us petowners to understand different aspects of basenji health that we probably didn't know when we purchased our first basenji. Or rescued the ensuing second, third, and fourth basenji.
I appreciate when people ask questions about the dog's pedigree, or post health-related concerns, because as I read this, I understand the breed better.
These beautiful puppies are for sale, which was the first post of this thread. This person did not ask for astronomical amounts of money. Yes, I would call a litter of puppies a "batch" too, lol… no harm, no foul. I mis-speak all of the time... if you look, most of my posts are edited.
I've only been around basenjis for 8 years, but I've read that back in the 80s/90s, the breed was being riddled with health-related issues due to the genetic pool in the USA being too small, which is why people went to Africa to get "fresh blood", so to speak. So to make a general statement that there are too many basenji breeders in the USA is not fair, in my opinion. To say that breeding should not be continued because there are too many dogs in rescue is unrealistic, in my opinion... and the truth is that basenjis are in a rescue situation because of irresponsible PEOPLE… not necessarily because of irresponsible breeders.
While I have no idea who this breeder is, neither does anyone else on this forum. This person is new, and if we ever want to expand "our" gene pool and get "fresh blood" on here, then I respectfully request that we don't come to judgement of this person based upon two or three posts. This person is NOT James Holland, but appears to be from a family that loves the breed and bred two AKC basenjis. That is not a crime in itself. Not understanding the difference between black and white and a trindle isn't a crime, nor does it make one irresponsible. (I had never heard of the term before either!).
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I am sorry but if you are going to breed a breed of dogs then you should be an expert on the breed. You should have done lots of research and be an active member of the basenji community including having mentors that know a lot about the breed. If you don't know the common colors in the breed then you are not ready to be breeding, you haven't done near enough research. If a breeder doesn't know the common colors in the breed what else don't they know? How about all the common health issues and their mode of inheritance? What about up to date socialization methods?
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I've only been around basenjis for 8 years, but I've read that back in the 80s/90s, the breed was being riddled with health-related issues due to the genetic pool in the USA being too small, which is why people went to Africa to get "fresh blood", so to speak. So to make a general statement that there are too many basenji breeders in the USA is not fair, in my opinion. To say that breeding should not be continued because there are too many dogs in rescue is unrealistic, in my opinion… and the truth is that basenjis are in a rescue situation because of irresponsible PEOPLE… not necessarily because of irresponsible breeders.
Irresponsible owners get their pups from irresponsible breeders… because if the breeder was responsible they would be screening the people wanting to purchase a puppy... and if not a fit, tell them that is not the breed for them. So I disagree with your statement.
And I also disagree that the Breed was "so" riddled with health-related issues that the trip to Africa happened.... While that was one of the reasons, to help expand the gene pool with new bloodlines, it was not the only reason. So unless these dogs come from the lines brought in from the 80's, these are NOT new bloodlines.
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Several people comment that "A responsible breeder", inferring that this person is NOT a responsible breeder. I don't think that's fair. We don't "know" this person,
This person did not ask for astronomical amounts of money.
So to make a general statement that there are too many basenji breeders in the USA is not fair, in my opinion. To say that breeding should not be continued because there are too many dogs in rescue is unrealistic
We don't have to KNOW the person. The pedigrees and health issues say it all.
We don't have to KNOW the person. Their lack of knowledge says it all.
We are fair to evaluate that someone with no knowledge that breeds without health testing and basic genetic knowledge IS NOT RESPONSIBLE.
I didn't read anyone say this person shouldn't breed because too many breeders or too many dogs in rescue. The ONLY issue is being a responsible breeder, and nothing about this is responsible. Responsible means you do every thing you can to ensure that IF you create puppies, you have done everything to make sure they have the best CHANCE of health, that the people getting them have the best CHANCE of healthy puppies. PRICE is not the issue. At FREE an unhealthy pup is too expensive!
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I am sorry but if you are going to breed a breed of dogs then you should be an expert on the breed. You should have done lots of research and be an active member of the basenji community including having mentors that know a lot about the breed. If you don't know the common colors in the breed then you are not ready to be breeding, you haven't done near enough research. If a breeder doesn't know the common colors in the breed what else don't they know? How about all the common health issues and their mode of inheritance? What about up to date socialization methods?
I completely agree with this!
