He could be a rat terrier mix; but he’s handsome!
Fanconi sucks
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you sometimes get the security token message if your pics are too big.
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I am very sorry about Ed's recent fanconi diagnosis. While he was born before the ability to test, if Hestekin Hills was what I consider a legitimate kennel, you might not have had to deal with this as no reputable breeder, IMO, would have been breeding the dogs that were being bred and certainly not together.
If the pedigrees you were given on both your dogs is correct - and I am suspect about pedigree integrity when I see a dominate (?) black and white being born from a tri x brindle breeding - then Pepper should be, worse case scenario, a carrier as her sire is dna p. clear and her dam is tested as dna p. carrier. That said - the picture of her dam on Sally's database is hard to see (too small) to know if she is a dominant black or a recessive fula black to say for certain. If the former - the pedgiree is highly suspect IMO. If the later then I would be more apt to have faith in the pedigree's given.
That said - if Pepper is, at worse, a carrier and she is spayed and never to be bred, I wonder if the DNA on Ed would not be more beneficial to the lab who is still trying to find the direct marker. I would think the more DNA from affected's they can get, the closer they might get to that direct test. Just a thought.
Good luck to you and Ed (and Pepper).
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Do let us know how your b is doing on the protocol. Some b's do just fine on it.
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I have tried to upload a picture for my profile and add some pics to an album but i get a security token error and unable to put any up. I let the Admin know so hopefully soon. We are breaking down the protocol with our vet since Ed is so early in the syndrome, the supplementation is going to be much less than the entire protocol which is good. we are VERy nervous since we want to do everything right for him. Again thanks for all the kind words. Just an update on the Pedigrees if anyone has any information they can pass along: Eds was Hestekin Hills Flower and Sire was Budlight Bud, Peppers was Hestekin Hills Love My Mindy and Budlight King.
Since Dr. Gonto developed the protocol for Fanconi, it is always good, especially for your Vet to make contact with him if this is his/her first Fanconi affected dog in the practice. Dr. Gonto is a great and wonderful resource…. any questions on the protocol, he is more then happy to explain and assist your Vet in the treatment plan.
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I am very sorry about Ed's recent fanconi diagnosis. While he was born before the ability to test, if Hestekin Hills was what I consider a legitimate kennel, you might not have had to deal with this as no reputable breeder, IMO, would have been breeding the dogs that were being bred and certainly not together.
If the pedigrees you were given on both your dogs is correct - and I am suspect about pedigree integrity when I see a dominate (?) black and white being born from a tri x brindle breeding - then Pepper should be, worse case scenario, a carrier as her sire is dna p. clear and her dam is tested as dna p. carrier. That said - the picture of her dam on Sally's database is hard to see (too small) to know if she is a dominant black or a recessive fula black to say for certain. If the former - the pedgiree is highly suspect IMO. If the later then I would be more apt to have faith in the pedigree's given.
That said - if Pepper is, at worse, a carrier and she is spayed and never to be bred, I wonder if the DNA on Ed would not be more beneficial to the lab who is still trying to find the direct marker. I would think the more DNA from affected's they can get, the closer they might get to that direct test. Just a thought.
Good luck to you and Ed (and Pepper).
Good thought Linda, about Ed and him being affected. I would think that they need a blood draw for that… however, if willing (Ed's owners) to do so, I will contact the person that can answer that question and see if this is something that would be useful to find the direct test.
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Many dogs with Fanconi can have a long life. I am taking care of my third
Fanconi affected and she turned 11 in December and is doing fine. It helps if they were diagnosed early. It also helps if they get on the protocol as soon as being diagnosed and if they are good eaters and pill takers.Teresa Hestekin is a USDA "B" licensed dealer. This means she can both breed and sell directly to petstores. You can look up her inspection reports at www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_welfare/efoia/index.shtml then click on Inspection Reports and License and Registration List
I would ask Teresa Hestekin if the dam of Budlight Bud, Brindy is still alive, since Brindy's dam, Singer was tested probably Indeterminate. I rescued Singer, a brindle, from a dog auction. Also ask her where she sold Dynamite Tom at and to whom, the sire of Flower. He eventually became a BRAT rescue I believe in the Spring of 2006 after being owned by another breeder.
I am certain that Mindy should be a Trindle as Hofer Pete, her sire is definitely a Tri as I saw him at the dog auction and he is a half brother to my Hofer Zipper, who had Fanconi but did not die from it. I am not sure if Hofer Kittie, Mindy's dam was at the auction but her sire, Hofer Ramsie was definitely a Brindle as I saw him. Hofer Ramsie died in November 2002 of a kidney disease, either Fanconi or Diabetes, as he did have glucose in the urine according to his vet that I spoke with.
There is a photo of Mindy on the Pedigree Database and her coat does not look good and I do not know what color one would register her as. It is not a good picture though as it looks blurry to me.
Many of the dogs that came from the Hofer lines and then were sold to the Choates, WL Kennel, and bred are registered wrong with regard to color. There are many dogs that should be registered as trindles are registered as tris. Dynamite Tom was owned by the Choates.
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You can look up her inspection reports at www.aphis.usda.gov/animal_welfare/efoia/index.shtml then click on Inspection Reports and License and Registration List
Just watched "End of America" and then got to this link and saw the scary warning when you click on Inspection Reports…. Not so curious anymore. This link is mildly terrifying. I feel like I'm signing my soul away to the government.
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Many dogs with Fanconi can have a long life. I am taking care of my third
Fanconi affected and she turned 11 in December and is doing fine. It helps if they were diagnosed early. It also helps if they get on the protocol as soon as being diagnosed and if they are good eaters and pill takers.While some dogs do well on the protocol, many do not.
In the past 10 years, we've had quite a few affecteds,
and only one took pills without issue….she was a bigger pig than the rest of them... but even my heartiest eaters said no thanks and went into starvation mode if forced any bicarbonate tabs.Hopefully yours will be one that WILL take the pills, and WILL do well.
I also don't believe it matters whether they spill early or late.
We have had 4 year olds spill and die before the age of six.
We've had 5yo start to spill and hang on until they were 10.
Benny started to spill 3 wks before he turned 9 and died 3 wks before he turned 11. He did not tolerate the protocol well.
When he went downhill, he went downhill very fast.It is a crap shoot... and we hope for the best.
I wish you a good number of quality years with Ed.BTW---I agree with Linda about the pedigree.... I have seen some of her pedigrees [Teresa] that I don't believe were correct…. just by color alone.
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I guess all I can say about the color of our dogs is that Pepper who's sire is Budlight king is a Tri and Ed of course is a red n white. I dont think we have to worry too much about Ed taking ANY pills, you see Ed is a P.I.G.
He will eat anything that touches the floor or is anywhere near his bowl. We have given him pills before and he swallows then before he even knew he had them in his mouth. We have already started to adjust the diet, we purchased the EVO dog food for him and he loves it(wish my checkbook felt the same, but he's worth it) We have had all of the blood work and things of that nature done and fortunately we found 2 Vets in the Madison area that have dealt with faconi and are working together on Ed. They are aware of the vitamin/supplement regimen a few of you have mentioned and they have recommended it. We are waiting on the results of a couple of the tests and will be starting the protocol within the next day or 2 I suspect. -
I have had 6 Fanconi dogs. The protocol works. Although we haven't been as fortunate as many on the Yahoo Fanconi List (which I urge you to join, there is a tremendous amount of experience and everyone understands completely what you're feeling), we know deep in our hearts that we made a difference. Before the protocol, dogs with Fanconi ALWAYS died within a very short time. I know of Fanconi dogs treated with the protocol who have lived over half their lives with Fanconi, and continue to lure course, show in conformation and obedience, and be loving friends to their owners.
Dogs who fight the pills are much more difficult, but there are a number of ways to handle this - it takes a lot of trial and error to find the best way for each dog. Be strong, it will get more routine, although it's never easy. -
Argh, 16 pills a day! Oh well he's worth it
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The bicarbs are the biggest issue - they taste really salty and apparently generally yucky, and unfortunately are also the most important. For some dogs, you have to hide them in treat balls and even be certain that the fingers that touch the pills don't touch the outside of the treat… Everything else is pretty manageable. If he is taking the Pet Cal, you can substitute dicalcium phosphate powder which I used to mix in the food with a little water. Lots of them don't seem to like the Pet Cal, but don't mind the powder. The Pet Tabs Plus are usually gobbled right down, but if not, there are other vitamins which seem to taste better to them. Start the bicarbs slowly, gradually increase to the needed dosage.
It does get easier; I just kept telling them (and myself) "I want you around to love for a long time, so you need to take these!" -
Tayda is currently willingly taking her bicarbs in brie. She is so spoiled. lol. Actually, I normally give them to her hidden in cream cheese (which she will swallow - but not willingly.) I bought this brie w/ herbs in it that I didn't like and tried using it to pill her just so I wouldn't waste it. She eats them on her own. HA.
The bicarbs are the toughest part for us. And usually an hour or two after she has them she drinks a LOT of water. So usually an hour or two after that she has to pee… so I try to give her the evening dose of bicarbs early enough that she gets most of her peeing done before we go to sleep. Otherwise I'm up 2 or 3 times during the night to let her out.
Mashed potatoes are another alternative when she decides she's had enough of the cream cheese. The rest just gets crushed into her food...
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We had the hardest time with the potassium because the were huge and you were not supposed to break them. After a lot of trial and error and finding pill fragments around the house we finally found something that worked. Kraft American Cheese slices. Now because Marley was a Basenji no other cheese would do. If it was ANY other brand she just wouldnt take them which made it tough when we were traveling.
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Have you tried meat baby food, the ham and veal really have a strong smell, I used to use that with my fanconi boy.
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The potassium I give is not very large, the kind you buy over the counter with 99 mg. of Potassium. There is also Gold Vet Potassium Citrate granules that you can put in the food. I believe it is liver and beef flavored. I started using it because my previous B, Zippy, became ill from too many prescription Potassium pills as they upset her stomach. I purchase it at KV Vet Supply. I started using it again when I had to increase the Potassium for Missy.
I had a hard time breaking up Pet Cal pills years ago and I quit buying it. I use either the powdered Calcium or another pill brand of Calcium.
I try to use as many products that I can put in her food since she already takes 10 bicarbs a day, thyroid medication, and other pills. Luckily I can coat the pills in canned dog food and she takes them.
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The potassium pills are aspirin sized so they shouldn't be too bad. We are planning on sticking them in little pieces of chicken liver or something along those lines. The powder would be nice but with 2 B's, you don't have any way of gauging if he is getting all of it. Another thing we are looking into is a pill grinder for the other pills since we aren't supposed to grind the potassium but are OK to do it with the others. We are going to use the EVO canned food to make a meatball or something like that. We will let you know how that goes. Thanks again for all of the advice!
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The potassium pills are aspirin sized so they shouldn't be too bad. We are planning on sticking them in little pieces of chicken liver or somethign along those lines. The powder would be nice but with 2 B's, you dont have any way of gauging if he is getting all of it. Another thing we are looking into is a pill grinder for the other pills since we aren't supposed to grind the potassium but are ok to do it with the others. We are going to use the EVO canned food to make a meatball or something like that. We will let you know how that goes. Thanks again for all of the advice!
Good luck, hope that things go well…. and more tricks are using cream cheese, butter, frozen yogart, peanut butter, cheese wiz.....
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I have tried to upload a picture for my profile and add some pics to an album but i get a security token error and unable to put any up. I let the Admin know so hopefully soon. We are breaking down the protocol with our vet since Ed is so early in the syndrome, the supplementation is going to be much less than the entire protocol which is good. we are VERy nervous since we want to do everything right for him. Again thanks for all the kind words. Just an update on the Pedigrees if anyone has any information they can pass along: Eds was Hestekin Hills Flower and Sire was Budlight Bud, Peppers was Hestekin Hills Love My Mindy and Budlight King.
Sorry to hear about Ed. It does sound like he was bred before the DNA tests were really well known. I know Teresa had started testing at some point and Ed must have been bred prior. Still though, nothing fun to deal with.
I'm certain that Peppers should be either a carrier or clear considering Budlight King was tested clear and Love My Mindy was tested carrier. IIRC, Clear and Carrier breed clear and carriers.
There's a lot of great info on this forum to help you with the Fanconi.
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Just be sure you do NOT grind or crush the bicarbs - they need to be given whole so that they buffer the blood, not the food/stomach contents.
