Good luck with your list Khalani, Wonder if I should get Kaiser to write one up.
Jolanda and Kaiser
He's Arriving On Saturday!
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And again, this person is incorrect about the age, it can be as early as 3 or as late as over 10yrs…. along with that as lvoss point out, we had a long time responsible (over 30 years) breeder that started testing all her dogs once the DNA test came out only to find that almost all her dogs were DNA Carriers for Fanconi. Had she continue to breed without test, there is no doubt that she would have starting having many Affecteds.
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Folks, this person has already made up their mind they are getting this puppy. Any further conversation isn't going to change anything.
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First and foremost, welcome to the forum!
I just want to reiterate something someone else said earlier.
Some of the people here may seem like they are interrogating you or off-putting, but they really are just looking out for you. They are trying to spare you the heartache that will come if you do find out that your pup is affected and have to either give up the pup after getting attached or watching him later on as the disease begins to rear it's ugly head.
With that being said, I hope you stay on the forums. It's a wealth of info and a good place to get advice from people who have seen nearly everything. I'm sending out happy thoughts that all turns out well. -
Folks, this person has already made up their mind they are getting this puppy. Any further conversation isn't going to change anything.
Well that might be a fact, but maybe they will take a step back and review the infomation sent and think twice about their choice of supporting clearly a Back Yard Breeder/Puppy Mill breeder and opt to find a responsible breeder.. even if the pup tests clear/carrier for Fanconi, there are other health concerns to consider… Patellas, hips, thyroid, eyes, elbows,... many things along with temperament.....
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Well, i hate to be judgemental but one look at that website would have very loud alarm bells ringing. They breed lots of different breeds AND crosses (I hate puggles so much! What a stupid cross). I know its hard to turn a puppy down once you have agreed to have it. I have been in this exact position and we felt backed into a corner and didnt feel brave enough to go home without the puppy. Biggest mistake we ever made and this is exactly why im so fussy when buying a dog (or breeding one!) now.
Some people on here can come across though they are interrogating you, and it can seem a bit intimidating, i know i found it like that when i first joined. My girls parents both are fanconi tested but the first thing everyone asked was whether she was. This is not because they want to upset or annoy people, its because they are passionate about the breed and want this preventable disease to be under control. No one wants you to end up with a fanconi affected dog, thats all.
If you do go ahead and get the puppy thats great, he looks adorable. But at least you are going into it armed with all the info you need
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I know its hard to turn a puppy down once you have agreed to have it. I have been in this exact position and we felt backed into a corner and didnt feel brave enough to go home without the puppy. Biggest mistake we ever made and this is exactly why im so fussy when buying a dog (or breeding one!) now.
Yes, I was in that position three weeks ago… I was SOOOOO looking forward to having my little girl! I bought/got everything I would need for a puppy, specifically for basenji puppy. She already had a name, we told all the family, everything you can imagine and then some. I already made vet appointments for health check/shots, etc., basically rearranged entire kitchen/dining room to fit extra crate in. Not talking about the deposit money here either. Giving up that puppy was one of the hardest things I had to do in my life...
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Thank you Maya, that is why I joined these forums and have spent hours reading topics.
I have a question for everyone though, people here seem to be so against buying a puppy form a breeder that's not registered with X Y or C just in case it is Fanconi (which I fully understand), but my question is what do you think should happen to those puppies that a breeder has that DO have it?
Should they be euthanized?
The answer to that is NO.
I mean, Kai may have it, he may not have it, what will happen to him if I say "nope..not going to risk getting him just in case he has it"?
He will just stay with the breeder until somebody else purchases him…
And that somebody else might not be able to give him the life my partner and myself can offer, lots of open space for him to play and exercise, access to the best vets in LA, that somebody might abuse him, not walk him, not play with him, in other words, NEGLECT HIM.
Even if he DOES have Fanconi, it does not mean he has any less right to be loved and cared for, and I for one am, going to love him regardless.
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I mean, Kai may have it, he may not have it, what will happen to him if I say "nope..not going to risk getting him just in case he has it"?
He will just stay with the breeder until somebody else purchases him…
And that somebody else might not be able to give him the life my partner and myself can offer, lots of open space for him to play and exercise, access to the best vets in LA, that somebody might abuse him, not walk him, not play with him, in other words, NEGLECT HIM.
Even if he DOES have Fanconi, it does not mean he has any less right to be loved and cared for, and I for one am, going to love him regardless.
That was my question too… and that is why it was so hard to give up my little girl...
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Thank you Maya, that is why I joined these forums and have spent hours reading topics.
I have a question for everyone though, people here seem to be so against buying a puppy form a breeder that's not registered with X Y or C just in case it is Fanconi (which I fully understand), but my question is what do you think should happen to those puppies that a breeder has that DO have it?
Should they be euthanized?
The answer to that is NO.
I mean, Kai may have it, he may not have it, what will happen to him if I say "nope..not going to risk getting him just in case he has it"?
He will just stay with the breeder until somebody else purchases him…
And that somebody else might not be able to give him the life my partner and myself can offer, lots of open space for him to play and exercise, access to the best vets in LA, that somebody might abuse him, not walk him, not play with him, in other words, NEGLECT HIM.
Even if he DOES have Fanconi, it does not mean he has any less right to be loved and cared for, and I for one am, going to love him regardless.
Of course that is your choice, however by doing so, you support that BYB breeder who is only in it for the money, period. The more people that walk away from these people, the more they will think about not breeding the next time or maybe at least getting out of Basenjis. Why spend good money supporting someone that has no interest in the dogs, who don't even care enough to breed responsibility, only that they are a "cash cow"… easy to see with this particular person who has so many breeds.
And it is not only Fanconi, with no test this pup (or any from this breeder) could have bad patellas, bad hips, autoimmune problems, and in the end cost you thousands of dollars to try and give that pup a good life... again, that breeder will not care....
Again, IMO you are only supporting a BYB to keep on breeding.. and this does even begin to address the issue of the temperament. Since you have never met the puppies or the sire/dam, you have no idea what their temperament is like.... and rasised in a kennel situation even more reason to be concerned. All you have is the breeder telling you... of course they are and have wonderful temperaments.... like they would tell you different?
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Just out of curiosity: What is considered a Back Yard Breeder? If I breed my Lana (after having all possible tests done and come out to be clear/negative/normal/good/etc and the same with the sire) because I want to keep her puppy to do lure coursing with, and find good homes with responsible owners for the rest of the pups, is that considered a BYB? I am not in it for money, I want to support the breed, especially here in Sacramento, where there are very few B's around?
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Just out of curiosity: What is considered a Back Yard Breeder? If I breed my Lana (after having all possible tests done and come out to be clear/negative/normal/good/etc) because I want to keep her puppy to do lure coursing with, and find good homes with responsible owners for the rest of the pups, is that considered a BYB?
If you bred her without testing, without having talked to other breeders, finding a mentor, without contracts on the puppies and not taking responsibility that you are and will be responsible for those pups no matter what for their lifetime… Not screening homes.... that is a BYB.
Obviously it would be good if you knew more about your girl and her background, but at least you put forth the effort to test her, talk to people, find a nice stud to bred her too (note here, since she came up not bred from Ryder, before going back to him, you might ask Terri to have a sperm count done), I would not consider you a BYB.
And in the Sac area, there are really quite a few Basenjis around the area. There is a breeder in Woodland and one in Vacaville. There are a number of pups that have been place around that area.
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Tanza, it is my choice, but NEWSFLASH!!! If I don't buy him, somebody else will.
And trust me, if he does have Fanconi, I will bankrupt the breeder, I will prevent them from ever breeding puppies again, I will have so many lawsuits against them, their great grand kids will be paying off their legal bills, and since my partner is also a partner at a very prestigious law firm in LA..we don't have to worry about our legal bills.
And as for ground….see the below from their website:
Our babies come prespoiled with a microchip, health guarantee,health certificate from the vet,and their Medical record with the dates of all of their wormings and shots and the kind they were given and their Registration,some are ACA registered but most are AKC registered and all of them come with a full registration.
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If you bred her without testing, without having talked to other breeders, finding a mentor, without contracts on the puppies and not taking responsibility that you are and will be responsible for those pups no matter what for their lifetime… Not screening homes.... that is a BYB.
Obviously it would be good if you knew more about your girl and her background, but at least you put forth the effort to test her, talk to people, find a nice stud to bred her too (note here, since she came up not bred from Ryder, before going back to him, you might ask Terri to have a sperm count done), I would not consider you a BYB.
Thank you Pat. Just making sure. By the way, she was pregnant, the ultrasound showed two sacks, but then she absorbed them. Sperm count on Ryder was done, it was fine, I have the results somewhere. I did talk to Terri, and later we'll decide if we are going to try Ryder again or go with another stud that Terri suggests.
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To the OP…They've already lied to you about fanconi testing, why would you believe anything on their website?
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And trust me, if he does have Fanconi, I will bankrupt the breeder, I will prevent them from ever breeding puppies again, I will have so many lawsuits against them, their great grand kids will be paying off their legal bills, and since my partner is also a partner at a very prestigious law firm in LA..we don't have to worry about our legal bills.
Haha… they might have deserved that even if Kai is Fanconi clear, just by being irresponsible with a large number of dogs/puppies
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And in the Sac area, there are really quite a few Basenjis around the area. There is a breeder in Woodland and one in Vacaville. There are a number of pups that have been place around that area.
I was not aware of that. I tried finding other Sac owners (maybe have a B playdate), but unsuccessfully… Either way, I want to keep Lana's daughter and some member of my extended family are so taken with her that they want a puppy from her too...
This is not my thread to discuss my dog(s), I was just curious... Thanks again Pat.
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renaultf1, they told me they have no had any instances of Fanconi in their bloodline in the past 5 years.
Fact is, SOMEBODY is going to buy him, and I would rather it be myself, I'm not going to risk him going to a home where he might be abused.
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Tanza, it is my choice, but NEWSFLASH!!! If I don't buy him, somebody else will.
And trust me, if he does have Fanconi, I will bankrupt the breeder, I will prevent them from ever breeding puppies again, I will have so many lawsuits against them, their great grand kids will be paying off their legal bills, and since my partner is also a partner at a very prestigious law firm in LA..we don't have to worry about our legal bills.
And as for ground….see the below from their website:
And of that, what exactly does the health guarantee cover? Have you seen it in writing? How long does it cover, does it spell out all the afflictions that your pup could get? All BYB claim health guarantees, however they are usually for 2wks or in the case of some BYB's that know about the late onset problems in Basenjis, it will say guaranteed for genetic problems up to 2yrs. Too bad that Fanconi and PRA (which I forget to list in my other email) are 3 to 5yrs for onset. And there are other eye problems, cataracts, excessive PPM, juvenile cataracts. So if you think that contract/guarantee is going to cover you, my suggestion is that you think again. I know many people that have tried to sue…. and in the end, they might be offered to return the puppy and get another one in its place... but are you really going to send him/her back?
And yes, maybe someone else will purchase that puppy, but at least it will not be you supporting them in making money.
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Haha… they might have deserved that even if Kai is Fanconi clear, just by being irresponsible with a large number of dogs/puppies
Agreed!
I have done some research on this breeder though, if they were very bad..there would be something online about them, I mean, I know how I am when I have a bad experience with a company, I bitch and complain about them non-stop online for a few days.
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Agreed!
I have done some research on this breeder though, if they were very bad..there would be something online about them, I mean, I know how I am when I have a bad experience with a company, I bitch and complain about them non-stop online for a few days.
People who buy from breeders like that are often not aware of the health problems that the specific breed might have. You say your partner did the research, but a lot of people would not even know where to start. Plus a lot of people who buy dogs/cats/whatever from "designer" breeders buy them for gifts for someone else, so the dog/cat/whatever is not their problem anymore, and the actual owner often does not know who the breeder is and what to do about it if the animal gets sick.
