What ever he is, love him to death and enjoy...
Stafford-Ames Morse
Blue tri basenji
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I went to Sally's website and did find some "Nocturnal" dogs listed, but the registration numbers were strange. Some were clear, some carriers. I also tried to find decendents from the blue dogs May Morning of Sin and Morining Mist of Sin, but that also was a dead end. However, relatives of these dogs have been used.
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I have never seen anything like that before. The eyes are also blue, so I am all sorts of confused about that one. I half expected it to have red eyes and be some sort of albino type pup.
I am thinking the blue in the eyes is the reflection, not the color. Blue dobes have brown eyes, just like black ones.
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The tri blue is a beautiful dog - never saw another like it - but if I did I'd grab it in a minute!
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@Shaye's:
The tri blue is a beautiful dog - never saw another like it - but if I did I'd grab it in a minute!
I agree…I think we all agree....I can't imagine why the original founders of our breed wished to get rid of that color. Such a shame.
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I guess I am of the minority…regarding the color... While I can appreciate a good structured dog of any color, I would have a tough time with the Blue.....
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I am thinking the blue in the eyes is the reflection, not the color. Blue dobes have brown eyes, just like black ones.
I would have guess the eyes were light, but not really blue. I have a blue malinois and her eyes are a weird greyish color, definately not the brown of our previous (normally colored) malinois. Also Siri, the Avongara blue fawn colored dog, has light colored eyes.
http://www.basenji.org/african/Siri.htm
But I do thing the color in the photo is due to the reflection and not the true eye color
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I guess I am of the minority…regarding the color... While I can appreciate a good structured dog of any color, I would have a tough time with the Blue.....
Oooops, guess I shouldn't have spoken for 'everyone'
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I would have guess the eyes were light, but not really blue. I have a blue malinois and her eyes are a weird greyish color, definately not the brown of our previous (normally colored) malinois. Also Siri, the Avongara blue fawn colored dog, has light colored eyes.
http://www.basenji.org/african/Siri.htm
But I do thing the color in the photo is due to the reflection and not the true eye color
Interesting. There's a kennel not too far from here that I spoke with awhile ago. They mentioned that they had a few basenjis in there before, and that they've seen different colors. At one point he mentioned there was a "blond" basenji. Until now I thought he was simply mistaken, but that link means there might be one nearby with the same coloring.
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Very beautiful looking pup. Just wanted to let people know Sarah lee–breeder of Nocturnal kennels-- is a very sweet lady and is not a puppy mill. She is one of the few that i know to have the blue color trait.
Just wanted to clear this up.
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Blue dogs are pretty, but I know in other breeds blue is often linked to immune problems and allergies.
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Its a pretty pup, I like unusual and its certainly that. Seeing it next to the normal tri though, i really do prefer the normal ones. The blue looks kind of washed out or something…
Still, if i got one of those in a litter i'd have to keep it just cos its different lol
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Very beautiful looking pup. Just wanted to let people know Sarah lee–breeder of Nocturnal kennels-- is a very sweet lady and is not a puppy mill. She is one of the few that i know to have the blue color trait.
Just wanted to clear this up.
Color aside…..
While we all have our own ideas on what is or is not a responsible breeder and/or a puppy mill and/or Backyard Breeder, my personal opinion is that this is not a responsble breeder. Why? 1st they breed/sell and have a number of different breeds that they breed and sell (at least 5 different breeds). And in my opinion, there is no way that you can properly socialize puppies having that many. They do not sell on a spay/neuter contract or any contract that I can see, therefore breeding of their puppies produced and sold with or without their knowledge is pretty much a reality. This would lead one to believe there there is no way they can keep track of all the puppies they have bred and sold, so hard to believe that they are responsible and take back any puppy bred/sold if the owners had to give up that particular dog for whatever reason. And/or be responsible for the offspring of anyone breeding any puppy that they have sold/placed.
While I see that they have Fanconi tested a few of the Basenjis (or it could have been offspring) that I could find in Sally's database, 3 of the bitches are carriers, so even bred to a clear, are the puppies tested so that any buyer would know if their pup is a carrier or clear, especially seeing that they don't use spay/neuter contracts? Without that knowledge, that pup could be bred to another carrier and produce affected.
Also, looking at the pictures, clearly to me, the dogs are kept in pretty bleak kennel runs.... and again, in my opinion, are not up to AKC standards in type or conformation. And it doesn't look like they are AKC registered according to Sally's side or the AKC site with the exception of the one MaleFlaming suit ready and waiting
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And it doesn't look like they are AKC registered according to Sally's side or the AKC site with the exception of the one Male
Flaming suit ready and waiting
No flaming from me. I just wanted to add that they are not AKC registered nor are they AKC registerable. The breeder has not provided pedigree information on the blues when asked.
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I would like to know the pedigree since I rescued a few CKC-Continental Kennel Club Bs a few years ago-reds & brindles-all males. They were from different breeders in Southern OH who sold them to an Amish USDA dealer/breeder.
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I would like to know the pedigree since I rescued a few CKC-Continental Kennel Club Bs a few years ago-reds & brindles-all males. They were from different breeders in Southern OH who sold them to an Amish USDA dealer/breeder.
You can go onto Sally's sight and search under Nocturnal Kennels, there is only one with a pedigree on there… while the rest are there because of Fanconi testing they are listed as Unknown/Unknown
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Wow, that pup is absolutely beautiful!
Very different I love it. -
Wow! That's pretty cool!
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Diana Berry of the Sin Kennels produced blues and also creams. These colours were never accepted by the then Basenji Club but Diana was a bit of a rebel and wasn't bothered. At that time the majority of Basenjis with the 'wrong' colours were culled. To my knowledge she never shared but insisted that she could breed the colour any time. I wonder if this dog goes back to them - I haven't checked Sally's database yet. Diana's didn't have blue eyes as I remember but were quite light. I've never talked about them with her son but i've a feeling it might have been before he was born so he might not know.
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While we all have our own ideas on what is or is not a responsible breeder and/or a puppy mill and/or Backyard Breeder, my personal opinion is that this is not a responsble breeder. Why? 1st they breed/sell and have a number of different breeds that they breed and sell (at least 5 different breeds).
Flaming suit ready and waiting
Ok. my "flaming suit" lol
Here goes… I am not going to be rude about my reply, ill just tell you the facts. She has 2 breeds of her own, and her husband breeds two breeds (4) there are dacshunds, westys, terriers(cant remember the bred) and basenjis. They do NOT breed them ALL at the same time. She breeds maybe one or two litters (from one or two of the breeds) Most of these dogs are her pets. They live indoors with her, however some are outside.Also, looking at the pictures, clearly to me, the dogs are kept in pretty bleak kennel runs….
She does have kennels but she created them herself and they are all in working progress. Sarah was in a car accident and has some damage resulting. She does what she can but it may take her a while. She works as hard as she can and for as long as she can. She tries really hard to do whats good for the dogs and she works hard on the kennels. She is continuously working on them. This year, she is plans on painting and building some of the kennel better. But she has a set up so the dogs can go indoors and outdoors. They have heat lamps and during the summer its heated and during the winter its air conditioned.
And in my opinion, there is no way that you can properly socialize puppies having that many.
Beings how she only breeds a couple litters (and they are not all in season at the same time) she has alot of time to work with the puppies. She LOVES her dogs. She plays with them every day and works with them. When people are interested in puppies she works hard to get the pictures of her puppies the way the buyers want the puppies. and she does this weekly so the new owners will be able to see their puppies grow. They all have vaccinations and everything is up to date when they are placed in their new homes.
They do not sell on a spay/neuter contract or any contract that I can see, therefore breeding of their puppies produced and sold with or without their knowledge is pretty much a reality. This would lead one to believe there there is no way they can keep track of all the puppies they have bred and sold, so hard to believe that they are responsible and take back any puppy bred/sold if the owners had to give up that particular dog for whatever reason.
Sarah states she will take back any puppy for any reason at any time in their life. This can be found in her adoption contract, which she does have and requires to be signed. She also has a health guarantee. She just doesnt have a spay and neuter contract because of the following reason. Now I understand your concern on this part. But she feels that people should be able to choose what they do with their dogs. She has her own opinion, just as you have yours. She feels that people who have a spay and neuter contract just make the contract so its harder to find a basenji and since there are less dogs to choose from, breeders can charge outrageous prices for a pet. Now, I UNDERSTAND there are alot of costs that go into breeding and raising puppies, but i do understand her side too. I am not getting into an argument as I am not taking sides. I am simply just sticking up for a friend because, for one she doesnt have alot of expereince with computers and she doesnt get on forums so she cannot defend herself, and because I want people to know her side of the story. (from the source and as a friend of hers)
and again, in my opinion, are not up to AKC standards in type or conformation. And it doesn't look like they are AKC registered according to Sally's side or the AKC site with the exception of the one Male
The ones that can be registered to AKC are registered. As i have posted somewhere else on these forums, Sarah inherited the blue basenjis from a friend. When her friend passed away, she got these dogs. The lady's son was a complete jerk and couldnt care less for the dogs. His main priority was to get the house cleaned out and sell it for lots of money. So the AKC part is not her fault. AKC regularly checks out her kennels just like they do yours (im assuming they do). There is a man in her area, with AKC, that comes and inspects things in and around her kennel. The dogs and the puppies. as for the site, we are working on getting them on there ( i asked if i could help her so they are on there for people as i would like to see more basenjis on there also) I have contacted Sally and she is helping us get it done. It takes hours and hours to get things updated on the site and she told us to bare with her as she will do it when she can. We are also going to get the parents and stuff on the site of the ones that are on there as much as she can do/remember.
While I see that they have Fanconi tested a few of the Basenjis (or it could have been offspring) that I could find in Sally's database, 3 of the bitches are carriers, so even bred to a clear, are the puppies tested so that any buyer would know if their pup is a carrier or clear, especially seeing that they don't use spay/neuter contracts? Without that knowledge, that pup could be bred to another carrier and produce affected.
In a recesssion, money is always an issue. Just stating a fact. but She actally just got done ordering some more tests for Fanconi for 4 more of the basenjis of hers. She is very careful on which basenjis she buys so she doesnt have to worry about Fanconi. However she tests them when she can just to be on the safe side. now IMO, I think that if someone breeds a dog, they should have it tested. So even if she didnt test the fanconi on the puppies, if someone is going to breed it, they should do it regardless of if she says it has fanconi or not. So somneone who breeds a carrier to a puppy they dont know–and it produces affected offsprind--would be stupid and it would be their fault as they shouldnt be breeding if they dont want to do it right. IMO, it shouldnt be her fault if that should happen. If someone were to sell you a puppy and say it was clear, wouldnt you test it just to be sure anyways? Even if you KNOW the parents are CL? I would because it puts more Basenjis into the database and you know for sure.
Now this is all just MY OPINION. And we are all open to our own opinions. Anyways there is my "flaming suit" take it for what its worth.
I honestly believe Sarah is a nice, animal caring lady. She genuinely cares for her dogs and she doesnt breed alot of dogs at the same time because she knows she wouldnt be able to handle it. She loves dogs and she wants what is best for them. Since you do not know her personally i dont feel it is right of you to judge her. She may not do things the same as you, or alot of other breeders, but she establishes a relationship with her puppy's owners and she tries to keep in contact. IMO,You cant tell me that EVERY SINGLE PERSON that you have adopted a puppy to has kept in contact. If so, that is amazing because, beings how you seem to be a well known basenji breeder, you have probably produced quite a few litters (co litters included) and I cant believe you would be so lucky to have kept contact with ALL of the owners of every single one of your puppies. There are some nice people but some people just dont care to keep contact--even tho i wish everyone would (with my rescue included in this wishing)
Anyways that is all im going to say now. You can share your opinion again, as i would like to hear it, or we can drop this. Its up to you. But Sarah is my friend, and a good person and i REALLY wish you wouldnt judge her without knowing her as its not fair to her.
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The ones that can be registered to AKC are registered. As i have posted somewhere else on these forums, Sarah inherited the blue basenjis from a friend. When her friend passed away, she got these dogs. The lady's son was a complete jerk and couldnt care less for the dogs. His main priority was to get the house cleaned out and sell it for lots of money. So the AKC part is not her fault.
But breeding them without registration is and is NOT responsible. If they are not registered then they should be spayed/neutered. If the registration cannot be legally transferred to her name then they should be spayed/neutered.
In a recesssion, money is always an issue. Just stating a fact. She actally just got done ordering some more tests for Fanconi for 4 more of the basenjis of hers. She is very careful on which basenjis she buys so she doesnt have to worry about Fanconi. However she tests them when she can just to be on the safe side
If in a recession you can't afford to test then you can't afford to breed. There is no such thing as clear by parentage with a marker test, every dog must be tested not "to be on the safe side" but to actually know its marker status. To breed without that testing is outright irresponsible and no justification for purposely breeding without it is going to change that fact.
How do you feel about this breeder having produced Affected offspring when a test was available to prevent it? She has done exactly that so by your own stated opinion this is a wrong thing and yet you are here defending her.
