Could you give me your ideas on my dog
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As a strickt B lover and owner, I think she is beautiful. I too, like the ears larger rather than too small/
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re: short upper arm - what typically goes with that is something that the dogs WILL NOT GROW UP OR OUT OF - that is the front assembly is too far forward - you will never have decent front fill but a hollowed our or cathedral front - there is WAAAAAAY to much of that in the ring now so if you have that and you see I'm on the judging panel - don't bring it to me please - it makes me very sad.
I would suggest that should anyone get the opportunity to attend a basic canine structure and anatomy workshop - take the time to go - it will help train your eye to look at what's under the skin.
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I have found that my basenji breed club is nice to share what I should watch for when we are sittling ring side.
They do it in a quiet manner, pointing out good fronts from those that need improvement.
Its very helpful to see the dogs move and get the clue as to what we should be watching. -
re: short upper arm - what typically goes with that is something that the dogs WILL NOT GROW UP OR OUT OF - that is the front assembly is too far forward - you will never have decent front fill but a hollowed our or cathedral front - there is WAAAAAAY to much of that in the ring now so if you have that and you see I'm on the judging panel - don't bring it to me please - it makes me very sad.
I would suggest that should anyone get the opportunity to attend a basic canine structure and anatomy workshop - take the time to go - it will help train your eye to look at what's under the skin.
I agree…. and straight shoulders... way to much of that in the breed too...
And you might want to get the book The Basenji Stacked and Moving by Robert Cole. Another good thing is to get the DVD's from the Nationals and look at the dogs showing from puppies to Veterans....
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I still think it's a good learner dog. Dukati457 will learn movement, structure, how to compensate for certain things that we see and can certainly guess what will happen, how to move the dog, etc. There are many things we are losing in the breed. What we are gaining are the straight shoulders, straight back leg, stop, almond eye, side wrinkles and chest. (to name a few) Some of overexaggerated the shelf as well. I have a bitch with an overexaggerated shelf, no stop, length, among other things. The more I go along, the more I learn as well.
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I still think it's a good learner dog. Dukati457 will learn movement, structure, how to compensate for certain things that we see and can certainly guess what will happen, how to move the dog, etc. There are many things we are losing in the breed. What we are gaining are the straight shoulders, straight back leg, stop, almond eye, side wrinkles and chest. (to name a few) Some of overexaggerated the shelf as well. I have a bitch with an overexaggerated shelf, no stop, length, among other things. The more I go along, the more I learn as well.
Arlene,
You mean we are losing stop? or we are getting too much?
I have never heard someone describe an overexaggerated shelf…same as I haven't heard of someone describe over angulated front..... I need a pic ;)
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Arlene,
You mean we are losing stop? or we are getting too much?
I have never heard someone describe an overexaggerated shelf…same as I haven't heard of someone describe over angulated front..... I need a pic ;)
I agree, I have never seen an overexaggerated shelf or front… Rear, yes and easy to spot because the front doesn't match the rear....
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Andrea, here is what I consider losing the stop and an overexaggerated shelf.
This is my Damisi
You can definitely see the shelf is rather large. I always say she has lots of junk in her trunk!
Damisi StopI don't know how well you can see this Andrea, but it's a sloping stop. It kind of slopes into the muzzle instead of actually have a difinitive stop. I call it a banana head.
The next is of Shadow's stop. I don't know how well you can see it because of the black, but it's a definite stop.
Shadow is only going to be 6, but because of the trauma of his pain from his pinched nerve, he is already greying.
Here's a lighter picture of Shadow, I don't know if it will help.
Dukati457 all of this talk and pictures are just something to keep in mind when looking at ANY Basenji. The best advice I can give you is to (if you can manage) get to a BCOA National and look at the dogs there. You will know what you like eventually.
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These photos are very helpful. Thanks for sharing them.
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IMO, her shelf is nice…but she could use a little extra second thigh (I think that is term); it looks like the steep angulation in her lower leg doesn't compliment the nice angle of her pelvis.
I see what you mean about her stop...but from the side it looks nice. Luna's head was like that too...obvious stop from the side, but from the front, or oblique angle, it looked strangely smooth...I like the name banana head ;) Her head looks a little domed, rather than flat on top...maybe that is giving the impression of no stop?
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IMO, her shelf is nice…but she could use a little extra second thigh (I think that is term); it looks like the steep angulation in her lower leg doesn't compliment the nice angle of her pelvis.
I see what you mean about her stop...but from the side it looks nice. Luna's head was like that too...obvious stop from the side, but from the front, or oblique angle, it looked strangely smooth...I like the name banana head ;) Her head looks a little domed, rather than flat on top...maybe that is giving the impression of no stop?
This was regarding Arlene's pics.
As far as Jazz…I think she is a decent bitch, and you should give it a shot to show her. As you know, it is hard to judge from pics alone...movement is so important. Depending on where you are, it might be difficult to finish her.
She also is very young, yes? So she will most likely grow into her ears. She has some faults, but nothing glaringly terrible, IMO. Also, IMO..she has more white than I would like to see on a show dog, and as Arlene mentioned, where her white is, might hurt her more than how much there is, because it exaggerates her short upper arm. But I would definitely give it a shot, if you are interested in showing. There are scads of nice and supportive people in your area, so give it a try :)
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IMO, her shelf is nice…but she could use a little extra second thigh (I think that is term); it looks like the steep angulation in her lower leg doesn't compliment the nice angle of her pelvis.
I see what you mean about her stop...but from the side it looks nice. Luna's head was like that too...obvious stop from the side, but from the front, or oblique angle, it looked strangely smooth...I like the name banana head ;) Her head looks a little domed, rather than flat on top...maybe that is giving the impression of no stop?
I don't know Andrea, if you take her apart, her body is rather nice-in pieces. Her body does not match her legs. But take them away from each other and they are okay. Second thigh? Please explain, as I have never heard this before. Take note Dukati457-we are both learning something new here!
Yes, I hate the head. It is domed, which definitely hurts her-It's a Mankia head, which I don't like. It should be flatter. As someone else stated, if you can get one of Robert Cole's books, it goes through each section of dog.
Yup, Banana head!
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Also, please remember, that whatever anybody says about your/their dog - There Is No Such Thing As A Perfect Dog!!!!!
Give showing a go. It can be lots of fun, especially making new friends etc. But be warned, showing is addictive and expensive, it gets under your skin! :D
Have fun with her. :) -
That's why I said to go ahead and give it a go too! Dukati457 will learn soooo much! And will soon be wanting another evil little devil-er, ahh, I mean, umm Basenji!
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I don't know Andrea, if you take her apart, her body is rather nice-in pieces. Her body does not match her legs. But take them away from each other and they are okay. Second thigh? Please explain, as I have never heard this before. Take note Dukati457-we are both learning something new here!
Yes, I hate the head. It is domed, which definitely hurts her-It's a Mankia head, which I don't like. It should be flatter. As someone else stated, if you can get one of Robert Cole's books, it goes through each section of dog.
Yup, Banana head!
I had to search a little for a good pic of second thigh, also called lower thigh, and also bend of stifle:
http://www.blog.cousinsweb.co.uk/2007/05/06/dog-anatomy/
Does Robert Cole call it banana head? I have his book, and studied it in detail, but it has been years since I looked at it ;) IMO, it definitely is one of the best references around.
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Also, please remember, that whatever anybody says about your/their dog - There Is No Such Thing As A Perfect Dog!!!!!
Give showing a go. It can be lots of fun, especially making new friends etc. But be warned, showing is addictive and expensive, it gets under your skin! :D
Have fun with her. :)Also, remember that so much of it is opinion. If we all agreed on what the standard meant, all Basenjis would look exactly alike, and probably be terribly inbred…so room for variation is a good thing!
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This is a very interesting thread!
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No, Robert Cole does NOT call it a banana head. I do keep it for reference very handy. I love looking at it. While I don't know if he was the best judge around. He does no know how to pick a dog apart. (I personally like the 'banana head' thing too. I think it's a very apt description)
I'll try to get a pic to you of her from behind. She has very pronounced muscling in the rear leg. I'll move the pics to a new thread under Damisi's butt pics. I think we've taken this from poor Dukati457!
I still think you should go for it. -
Very cool thread, thanks all for posting pics and definitions, very interesting indeed.
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Good luck! Dukati…thanks for the thread. I agree that is it is very helpful to get input on your pup and know what you're working with. I try to get brutally honest opinions if I can but it's hard to get sometimes with people you know personally. I've been thinking about doing one like this with Zoni but I haven't been happy with any of the pictures I've taken yet. Just a slight difference in angle is enough to make them look off...particularly fronts. Good pictures are hard to take.
For those who don't have Bob Cole's book, here is a link to an online version...albeit a very, very brief version (doesn't compare to the book), with a passing mention of the second thigh. For newbies to showing, I also highly recommend it...I've been studying it alot.
