New potential Basenji Owner in Wisconsin–-am a little scared!

[Quercus]

@Janneke:

Yes, but on a black you can't see the brindle, and on a Tri you should see the brindle in the red parts, which would make him a trindle..

Right, you can't get a brindle puppy without a brindle parent (genetically)…a black dog may not "look" brindle...or in this case, I suppose, a tri dog may not "look" trindle...but the stripes are masked by the black...they are still there though.

[nomrbddgs]

The one puppy in a recent litter of ALL trindles suddenly morphed into a tri. The two black stripes that were there, disappeared. One person now thinks that if they breed, they will only get tri's. Not so IMO. Could still end up with trindles. Personally I didn't agree with the breeding anyway. So one of the parents of this litter definitely could have been a trindle. Sorry Kelli, I misunderstood.

[YodelDogs]

@kiroja:

Another thing that struck me as odd was that her first litter, "Mia"'s litter I think, had lots of trindle pups out of two tri-color parents.

I don't see a pic of the sire but based on the appearance of the pups, I wouldn't be suprised if he was a "Taco Bell" Chihuahua. :eek:

[sharronhurlbut]

Oh, Yodeldogs that is BAD and so very TRUE! laugh, except its not very funny now is it?

[kiroja]

That's what I thought too Robyn! Eeek!

On the color issue, you're right Andrea, some people just don't care, don't know, or are more focused on other things. But I figured she knew very well what trindles were because she recognized the pups as such and has older dogs registered as trindles. Plus she seems to take pride in AKC and promotes them and I would think she would want them registered correctly. lol

[brianpoppee]

I spent 1 + years looking for the perfect Basenji. I talked to more breeders than I can count. I could not find the perfect puppy until I met Teresas pups, the 5th breeder I visited in person. I narrowed my options down to 4 pups, each better than any I had seen at previous visits with other breeders and I had a hard time picking just one. Teresa was very patient, understanding and knowledgeable. These pups are amazing with unique characters of their own and they all loved me. After a couple hours of playtime I finally picked one and my long search ended here. Teresa is very helpful and has great knowledge which shows through in the pups. The other professional breeders I visited DO NOT compare. I had my own post on here too and was discouraged and dis-hearted by these so called Basenji club members, I am glad I didn't listen to them.

Talking dogs has somehow turned into a war on here, it is a real turn off, or is to me. I wrote asking for information and help finding a basenji puppy, and I left feeling like I did not want a dog of any sort especially a Basenji. Breeders on here talk bad about each other and each others bloodlines. Dogs I looked at were picked apart and cut on by your forum members, it became obvious to me that there is no perfect bloodline. Each tried to sell me their pup or their friends pup, with co-ownership (which means I only own 1/2 of my own dog) No one gave me honest true advice without insulting someone. I almost decided to look at another breed and then I stumbled on Teresa. She invited me into her home (did not suggest meeting me at the gas station like SW) She showed me available pups and not available pups, the parents were all impressive. She showed me what she felt was good and bad about each pup, who had more of the laid back personality, who was the leader… She did her best to answer my questions and I could tell she was more than just a breeder, she knew each and every pup better than anyone I have ever spoke to... I got a folder full of information, some I haven't even read through yet. Health records are impressive, she already had some spay/neutered. Pups that were ? on fanconi had individual tests by mc#. Prices start at $575 for pets. I wanted to show but knew after this forum that I was not going to show. My pup is from Princess (fanconi clear) and Oscar (fanconi affected) so my pup will never have fanconi but might carry the gene to reproduce it, but he is neutered. For future reference I strongly suggest that the back stabbing between members stops, when people (like myself) ask questions and ask for assistance, your bickering, fighting and rude comments are a huge turn off. I almost passed on the Basenji breed because of this forum. I am now a happy Basenji owner but no thanks to any of you.

[Nemo]

@brianpoppee:

I spent 1 + years looking for the perfect Basenji. I talked to more breeders than I can count. I could not find the perfect puppy until I met Teresas pups, the 5th breeder I visited in person. I narrowed my options down to 4 pups, each better than any I had seen at previous visits with other breeders and I had a hard time picking just one. Teresa was very patient, understanding and knowledgeable. These pups are amazing with unique characters of their own and they all loved me. After a couple hours of playtime I finally picked one and my long search ended here. Teresa is very helpful and has great knowledge which shows through in the pups. The other professional breeders I visited DO NOT compare. I had my own post on here too and was discouraged and dis-hearted by these so called Basenji club members, I am glad I didn't listen to them.

I'm sorry you had that experience. It's very different than mine, pretty much everyone I met and talked to locally was very friendly.

[Basenjimamma]

What ever happened to Catherine? I hope you didn't get discouraged. Catherine, please I know how you feel. It is hard to come on a forum for info/help/encouragement and all you get is negative words. I do understand and encourage the irradication of Fanconi, but on the flipside I also see beyond that…we need to inform but not scare people away. I have a B that most people on here would not agree on, because it did not come form one of the breeders on here. But I did my due diligence and have proof that he comes from probably clear/normal parents and you know what is funny...his male and female tail line tracks all the way back to the same first dogs as theirs. Regardless of what breed you get it has potential problems brewing. Yes get you info straight and then go with your gut.
Regardless, I hope you are still with us and hopefully one day you will join us in discussion again.
As far as you question goes of whether you should be scared or excited...you should be both. How did it feel the first day you brought your newborn baby home...scary or exciting.?..again both right. It is the same feeling ( at least it was for me), you have a helpless little one in your care and all you can do is show it love and care as well as authority and guidance, and that little creature will love you unconditionally.
Bringing Otis into our lives has brought our family to a different dimension..in a good way, any of our dogs have done that but Otis the basenji even more so.

Petra

[Shaye's Mom]

The only suggestion I have is to go to the forum on Behavior - read some of the problems others have had, and the wonderful suggestions from the people who have owned Basenjis for a long time - this site has really made it much easier for me to understand my little puppy girl - she is a handful, but worth every minute.

[Quercus]

@brianpoppee:

I spent 1 + years looking for the perfect Basenji. I talked to more breeders than I can count. I could not find the perfect puppy until I met Teresas pups, the 5th breeder I visited in person. I narrowed my options down to 4 pups, each better than any I had seen at previous visits with other breeders and I had a hard time picking just one. Teresa was very patient, understanding and knowledgeable. These pups are amazing with unique characters of their own and they all loved me. After a couple hours of playtime I finally picked one and my long search ended here. Teresa is very helpful and has great knowledge which shows through in the pups. The other professional breeders I visited DO NOT compare. I had my own post on here too and was discouraged and dis-hearted by these so called Basenji club members, I am glad I didn't listen to them.

Glad you found a puppy that you are happy with. Can you share the breeding, and health testing you ended up with? And maybe what you paid? Are you going to show the puppy?

And, actually we REALLY are Basenji club members…not just so called

[lvoss]

@Basenjimamma:

But I did my due diligence and have proof that he comes from probably clear/normal parents and you know what is funny…his male and female tail line tracks all the way back to the same first dogs as theirs.

I just want everyone to know that the basenji breed at this moment in time only has 15 founders, 25 if you count the 10 just accepted but so far only a couple of those have been used so our number of founders is still under 20. Almost all of the female tail lines that do not have Avongara go back to Zig and Bereke there are truly only a handful of Fula OTC female tails out there and they now all go back to a single descendant. Borbasuk has a rare tail line in Ezri.

I also want to emphasize that there is more than just Fanconi to worry about. Thankfully, responsible breeders and owners have done a fabulous job of getting fanconi information out there and more and more breeders are finding they have to test or they can't sell puppies but it isn't the only health issue. I have seen dysplastic basenjis and it is sad to see dog that should be athletic and in its prime in pain doing things like running around a field. I have seen dogs blind from PRA, it is not an easy disease either.

It is true that no matter what breed you get you need to do your homework. You need to learn what diseases and other issues, like temperament, may be in the breed and ask questions. You need to independently verify information and feel comfortable asking questions.

[tanza]

Well put Lisa… and add to that, when you talk to breeders they should be open/honest and NOT be put off by questions or requests for test results... ones that say "Oh mine are healthly" or "I don't have any of those problems"... well if they are not tested then they know know... ignorance is bliss as they say...

[lvoss]

@tanza:

Well put Lisa… and add to that, when you talk to breeders they should be open/honest and NOT be put off by questions or requests for test results... ones that say "Oh mine are healthly" or "I don't have any of those problems"... well if they are not tested then they know know... ignorance is bliss as they say...

And since we have such a small genepool, we all have to worry about these problems. Truly, if you aren't testing you don't know. Now a breeder that has been testing and following their lines well, may be able to say that there has not been a dog with xxx issue in yyy generations but that can only be said if testing has been done.

[Quercus]

@Basenjimamma:

What ever happened to Catherine? I hope you didn't get discouraged. Catherine, please I know how you feel. It is hard to come on a forum for info/help/encouragement and all you get is negative words. I do understand and encourage the irradication of Fanconi, but on the flipside I also see beyond that…we need to inform but not scare people away. I have a B that most people on here would not agree on, because it did not come form one of the breeders on here. But I did my due diligence and have proof that he comes from probably clear/normal parents and you know what is funny…his male and female tail line tracks all the way back to the same first dogs as theirs. Regardless of what breed you get it has potential problems brewing. Yes get you info straight and then go with your gut.

Petra

I really hope that most people don't feel this way. We (the breeders on the boards) have never discriminated against people who have dogs from non-BCOA breeders. We have welcomed everyone regardless of whether their dog is purebred, or adopted, purchased, or found. We have offered advice to people on how to find a great dog…we never advocate exclusively the breeders who come to this list...but we are happy when people find themselves a responsible breeder who is committed to the preservation of the breed. Our recommendation of other BCOA breeders has NOTHING to do with trying to help our friends...it has to do with a committment to best breeding practices and a committment to the breed we love.

[tanza]

@Quercus:

I really hope that most people don't feel this way. We (the breeders on the boards) have never discriminated against people who have dogs from non-BCOA breeders. We have welcomed everyone regardless of whether their dog is purebred, or adopted, purchased, or found. We have offered advice to people on how to find a great dog…we never advocate exclusively the breeders who come to this list...but we are happy when people find themselves a responsible breeder who is committed to the preservation of the breed. Our recommendation of other BCOA breeders has NOTHING to do with trying to help our friends...it has to do with a committment to best breeding practices and a committment to the breed we love.

Very Well Put!!!!

[Basenjimamma]

It might not be that you (as in all of you breeders, no names in particular) are trying to be discriminating, but honestly, that is how it comes across. I did not mean nor intend that the only breeders on here are the best and only buy from them, but what I meant was unless you have the name of the BYB, PM or "breeder" on your sleeve as you sign up and introduce yourself, it is first degree questioning going on, and if, god forbid if you didn't get your beloved puppy from a name well recognizable in a good way, it is not a good breeder nor is the dog tested…automatically.
I understand the passion for the breed and all that, but the way intro's in particular are handled, it leaves a lot to be desired. A lot of people search for forums like this to learn, find guidance and what not and when they are met with the negativity, do you think they stay around to learn and maybe gain something from it, or do you think they get the H--l out of dodge.." 'cause those people on that forum are just plain rude, mean, negative you name it". I am still here,and I won't leave, unless asked, but then I will only leave with a fight. I am learning lots about Bs in general and also about the genetics and all the interesting fun facts.
I honestly think a lot of people get turned off and simply won't come on here and ask the important questions and therefor the very big picture is lost. The goal is to inform as many peeps as possible about the amazing Bs, but more importantly about horrible ailments they sometimes get. But if new peeps don't get on here or leave before they got the big picture, who does it help? It certainly doesn't help basenjis.
As far as I am concerned, the breeders on here (all of you) are very important, we need/want your expertise, just wish it could be delivered a little smoother.

Petra

[Rita Jean]

Basenjimamma, you are so very correct the way questions are ask on here about were you got your B and testing and this could be wrong is no fun. There are a lot of cool things on this site but kinder words go so much better and people will keep comming back and asking questions and taking care of there B's. If we run people off and they never learn or know about the testing the real harm has been done to the B and all of us really. I know I want the best for Jaycee but like having a child do you just give up or give your child away if it's not perfect in everyone's eyes.
A moment of FUN, Jaycee had her first in home class today this was great and fun. More for her to watch and see and then next class Jaycee will be worked with one on one. The two dog's that were here today with Tom are great to watch and obey wonderful. I told him if Jaycee could just do 1/2 of all that when it was over I would be so very happy. He said Jaycee will do all of what we seen today now I ready I want her to learn.
By the way Otis is very beautiful he has really grown since I since him back in March. Well hopfully you and I will not get told not to come back for speaking our minds.

[Nemo]

@Rita:

Basenjimamma, you are so very correct the way questions are ask on here about were you got your B and testing and this could be wrong is no fun. There are a lot of cool things on this site but kinder words go so much better and people will keep comming back and asking questions and taking care of there B's. If we run people off and they never learn or know about the testing the real harm has been done to the B and all of us really. I know I want the best for Jaycee but like having a child do you just give up or give your child away if it's not perfect in everyone's eyes.
A moment of FUN, Jaycee had her first in home class today this was great and fun. More for her to watch and see and then next class Jaycee will be worked with one on one. The two dog's that were here today with Tom are great to watch and obey wonderful. I told him if Jaycee could just do 1/2 of all that when it was over I would be so very happy. He said Jaycee will do all of what we seen today now I ready I want her to learn.
By the way Otis is very beautiful he has really grown since I since him back in March. Well hopfully you and I will not get told not to come back for speaking our minds.

While I don't disagree in concept with that you are saying, I don't believe anyone on this forum has ever suggested that someone give up a dog because they did not get it from a particular breeder, etc. or because particular testing has or has not been done. Most of the situations, and this thread in particular, deals with the situation where someone has either not actually gotten the dog or is considering getting dog from someone. Even though it might be difficult to hear at the time, I personally would like to know that there are some concerns before picking up a dog from a particular breeder or things I have not considered that I should have. Having a pet is a long term emotional commitment and its better to know before you make that commitment than it is after it is too late. But again, I don't disagree that some posts could have been worded differently. That's one of challenges of this medium, it's hard to communicate the emotional context with the text.

[sharronhurlbut]

I just do rescue, so to me, informing folks of fanconis testing, when they didn't get their dog from a legit breeder is very important.
I am sorry it comes across as mean, but I think we want you to know what will be coming your way, and the fanconis test can help you.

[Basenjimamma]

I do understand the challenges that the subject brings up, and by all means tell are there is to tell, does it have to be so negative and abrupt? I don't believe that I said nor meant that in any way should you give a dog up because it didn't meet "forum criteria" (and I mean that loosley so please refrain form quoting), by all means love that dog like any other, there might be hard times down the line, but the dog deserves all the love none the less. For instance. if I am looking at a dog and it might not be from the best of places, does it have to be compared to one of the mexican fast food chains spokesdogs? Unnecessary, right. I mean, for a lot of people, me included, it is very close to having your own child, I mean bringing a dog home…and the last thing you need is to hear that you not only probably chose a "bad" breeder, the dog also looks like a joke..
It might be hard to communicate the emotional context with text, but that hasn't stopped other threads from showing the happy emotion in text. Ok so I don't know how else to say it so I apologize if is doesn't make sense.
For next time, when/if I get a second B I will research breeders more then I did this last time. My main goal when I was looking for Otis was Fanconi clear and I got that. In every breed, regardless what type there will be illnesses, especially today when so many weird things are going into the feed and shots they have to have etc. I have had 2 dogs that within the last month and a half have past away form different ailments. One was a mutt, sweet Lou, nothing wrong until Now-2008, gained 20 lbs over one months time-severe hypothyroidsm, started getting really moody and violent-brain tumor behind a bulging left eye...and he was a mutt. My other dog, Bogus, a westie has had bad allergies all his life and eventually his kidneys and liver couldn't take the pressure anymore. My point is, all breeds/mixed or pure has issues, may have issues. If we as humans are taking them in, regardless of breed, we owe them the best life they can envision. We can not make peolpe understand the severity of certain ailments by being rude, in your face or whatever have you. Humans don't respond well to that, we are like Basenjis, we respond to positive reinforcement, not sugar coating the issues by all means , but nice, non attacking manners, that make people open up regarding things instead of shutting them out.

Rita Jean, thank you, as a newbie here I feel you understand what I am trying to get out. Yes Otis has grown so much, at 4 1/2 months he is topping off at 20 lbs and about 15" in his shoulders, and I love how people react when they see him, he literally stops them in their tracks....handsome boy.
Petra