But I did my due diligence and have proof that he comes from probably clear/normal parents and you know what is funny…his male and female tail line tracks all the way back to the same first dogs as theirs.
I just want everyone to know that the basenji breed at this moment in time only has 15 founders, 25 if you count the 10 just accepted but so far only a couple of those have been used so our number of founders is still under 20. Almost all of the female tail lines that do not have Avongara go back to Zig and Bereke there are truly only a handful of Fula OTC female tails out there and they now all go back to a single descendant. Borbasuk has a rare tail line in Ezri.
I also want to emphasize that there is more than just Fanconi to worry about. Thankfully, responsible breeders and owners have done a fabulous job of getting fanconi information out there and more and more breeders are finding they have to test or they can't sell puppies but it isn't the only health issue. I have seen dysplastic basenjis and it is sad to see dog that should be athletic and in its prime in pain doing things like running around a field. I have seen dogs blind from PRA, it is not an easy disease either.
It is true that no matter what breed you get you need to do your homework. You need to learn what diseases and other issues, like temperament, may be in the breed and ask questions. You need to independently verify information and feel comfortable asking questions.
Well put Lisa… and add to that, when you talk to breeders they should be open/honest and NOT be put off by questions or requests for test results... ones that say "Oh mine are healthly" or "I don't have any of those problems"... well if they are not tested then they know know... ignorance is bliss as they say...
Well put Lisa… and add to that, when you talk to breeders they should be open/honest and NOT be put off by questions or requests for test results... ones that say "Oh mine are healthly" or "I don't have any of those problems"... well if they are not tested then they know know... ignorance is bliss as they say...
And since we have such a small genepool, we all have to worry about these problems. Truly, if you aren't testing you don't know. Now a breeder that has been testing and following their lines well, may be able to say that there has not been a dog with xxx issue in yyy generations but that can only be said if testing has been done.
What ever happened to Catherine? I hope you didn't get discouraged. Catherine, please I know how you feel. It is hard to come on a forum for info/help/encouragement and all you get is negative words. I do understand and encourage the irradication of Fanconi, but on the flipside I also see beyond that…we need to inform but not scare people away. I have a B that most people on here would not agree on, because it did not come form one of the breeders on here. But I did my due diligence and have proof that he comes from probably clear/normal parents and you know what is funny…his male and female tail line tracks all the way back to the same first dogs as theirs. Regardless of what breed you get it has potential problems brewing. Yes get you info straight and then go with your gut.
Petra
I really hope that most people don't feel this way. We (the breeders on the boards) have never discriminated against people who have dogs from non-BCOA breeders. We have welcomed everyone regardless of whether their dog is purebred, or adopted, purchased, or found. We have offered advice to people on how to find a great dog…we never advocate exclusively the breeders who come to this list...but we are happy when people find themselves a responsible breeder who is committed to the preservation of the breed. Our recommendation of other BCOA breeders has NOTHING to do with trying to help our friends...it has to do with a committment to best breeding practices and a committment to the breed we love.
I really hope that most people don't feel this way. We (the breeders on the boards) have never discriminated against people who have dogs from non-BCOA breeders. We have welcomed everyone regardless of whether their dog is purebred, or adopted, purchased, or found. We have offered advice to people on how to find a great dog…we never advocate exclusively the breeders who come to this list...but we are happy when people find themselves a responsible breeder who is committed to the preservation of the breed. Our recommendation of other BCOA breeders has NOTHING to do with trying to help our friends...it has to do with a committment to best breeding practices and a committment to the breed we love.
Very Well Put!!!!
It might not be that you (as in all of you breeders, no names in particular) are trying to be discriminating, but honestly, that is how it comes across. I did not mean nor intend that the only breeders on here are the best and only buy from them, but what I meant was unless you have the name of the BYB, PM or "breeder" on your sleeve as you sign up and introduce yourself, it is first degree questioning going on, and if, god forbid if you didn't get your beloved puppy from a name well recognizable in a good way, it is not a good breeder nor is the dog tested…automatically.
I understand the passion for the breed and all that, but the way intro's in particular are handled, it leaves a lot to be desired. A lot of people search for forums like this to learn, find guidance and what not and when they are met with the negativity, do you think they stay around to learn and maybe gain something from it, or do you think they get the H--l out of dodge.." 'cause those people on that forum are just plain rude, mean, negative you name it". I am still here,and I won't leave, unless asked, but then I will only leave with a fight. I am learning lots about Bs in general and also about the genetics and all the interesting fun facts.
I honestly think a lot of people get turned off and simply won't come on here and ask the important questions and therefor the very big picture is lost. The goal is to inform as many peeps as possible about the amazing Bs, but more importantly about horrible ailments they sometimes get. But if new peeps don't get on here or leave before they got the big picture, who does it help? It certainly doesn't help basenjis.
As far as I am concerned, the breeders on here (all of you) are very important, we need/want your expertise, just wish it could be delivered a little smoother.
Petra
Basenjimamma, you are so very correct the way questions are ask on here about were you got your B and testing and this could be wrong is no fun. There are a lot of cool things on this site but kinder words go so much better and people will keep comming back and asking questions and taking care of there B's. If we run people off and they never learn or know about the testing the real harm has been done to the B and all of us really. I know I want the best for Jaycee but like having a child do you just give up or give your child away if it's not perfect in everyone's eyes.
A moment of FUN, Jaycee had her first in home class today this was great and fun. More for her to watch and see and then next class Jaycee will be worked with one on one. The two dog's that were here today with Tom are great to watch and obey wonderful. I told him if Jaycee could just do 1/2 of all that when it was over I would be so very happy. He said Jaycee will do all of what we seen today now I ready I want her to learn.
By the way Otis is very beautiful he has really grown since I since him back in March. Well hopfully you and I will not get told not to come back for speaking our minds.
@Rita:
Basenjimamma, you are so very correct the way questions are ask on here about were you got your B and testing and this could be wrong is no fun. There are a lot of cool things on this site but kinder words go so much better and people will keep comming back and asking questions and taking care of there B's. If we run people off and they never learn or know about the testing the real harm has been done to the B and all of us really. I know I want the best for Jaycee but like having a child do you just give up or give your child away if it's not perfect in everyone's eyes.
A moment of FUN, Jaycee had her first in home class today this was great and fun. More for her to watch and see and then next class Jaycee will be worked with one on one. The two dog's that were here today with Tom are great to watch and obey wonderful. I told him if Jaycee could just do 1/2 of all that when it was over I would be so very happy. He said Jaycee will do all of what we seen today now I ready I want her to learn.
By the way Otis is very beautiful he has really grown since I since him back in March. Well hopfully you and I will not get told not to come back for speaking our minds.
While I don't disagree in concept with that you are saying, I don't believe anyone on this forum has ever suggested that someone give up a dog because they did not get it from a particular breeder, etc. or because particular testing has or has not been done. Most of the situations, and this thread in particular, deals with the situation where someone has either not actually gotten the dog or is considering getting dog from someone. Even though it might be difficult to hear at the time, I personally would like to know that there are some concerns before picking up a dog from a particular breeder or things I have not considered that I should have. Having a pet is a long term emotional commitment and its better to know before you make that commitment than it is after it is too late. But again, I don't disagree that some posts could have been worded differently. That's one of challenges of this medium, it's hard to communicate the emotional context with the text.
I just do rescue, so to me, informing folks of fanconis testing, when they didn't get their dog from a legit breeder is very important.
I am sorry it comes across as mean, but I think we want you to know what will be coming your way, and the fanconis test can help you.
I do understand the challenges that the subject brings up, and by all means tell are there is to tell, does it have to be so negative and abrupt? I don't believe that I said nor meant that in any way should you give a dog up because it didn't meet "forum criteria" (and I mean that loosley so please refrain form quoting), by all means love that dog like any other, there might be hard times down the line, but the dog deserves all the love none the less. For instance. if I am looking at a dog and it might not be from the best of places, does it have to be compared to one of the mexican fast food chains spokesdogs? Unnecessary, right. I mean, for a lot of people, me included, it is very close to having your own child, I mean bringing a dog home…and the last thing you need is to hear that you not only probably chose a "bad" breeder, the dog also looks like a joke..
It might be hard to communicate the emotional context with text, but that hasn't stopped other threads from showing the happy emotion in text. Ok so I don't know how else to say it so I apologize if is doesn't make sense.
For next time, when/if I get a second B I will research breeders more then I did this last time. My main goal when I was looking for Otis was Fanconi clear and I got that. In every breed, regardless what type there will be illnesses, especially today when so many weird things are going into the feed and shots they have to have etc. I have had 2 dogs that within the last month and a half have past away form different ailments. One was a mutt, sweet Lou, nothing wrong until Now-2008, gained 20 lbs over one months time-severe hypothyroidsm, started getting really moody and violent-brain tumor behind a bulging left eye...and he was a mutt. My other dog, Bogus, a westie has had bad allergies all his life and eventually his kidneys and liver couldn't take the pressure anymore. My point is, all breeds/mixed or pure has issues, may have issues. If we as humans are taking them in, regardless of breed, we owe them the best life they can envision. We can not make peolpe understand the severity of certain ailments by being rude, in your face or whatever have you. Humans don't respond well to that, we are like Basenjis, we respond to positive reinforcement, not sugar coating the issues by all means , but nice, non attacking manners, that make people open up regarding things instead of shutting them out.
Rita Jean, thank you, as a newbie here I feel you understand what I am trying to get out. Yes Otis has grown so much, at 4 1/2 months he is topping off at 20 lbs and about 15" in his shoulders, and I love how people react when they see him, he literally stops them in their tracks....handsome boy.
Petra
I swear this issue comes up every 4-6 weeks and the bottom line is that no matter how someone on this list tries to put it, some people will feel any question about where their puppy is from or about health testing comes across as negative. If people are that sensitive about hearing, "If you don't mind sharing, where did you get your basenji?" or "Have you heard about the Fanconi test? Was your basenji or its parents tested?" then maybe it is their issue and not a problem with the question.
Maybe…
I guess you shouldn't beat a dead horse?!
<>
I can understand how that would hurt your feelings...but I don't think the reference was to the dogs looking like a joke. It was more in the way of commentary that there **may have been some accidental breedings that created a dog with more of a 'chihuahua' look; particularly since there are some unpredictable color/patterns being reported. I don't know, because honestly, I didn't follow the thread all that closely. I am pretty sure that nobody here would intentionally imply that one breeder's lines were a joke.
My feelings are far from hurt. I couldn't care less regarding that particular statement, but I wonder how the person whom this thread was started by felt. After all she came for encouragement and got all that and some chips…
But since this issue will be coming around in 4-6 weeks I guess I'll just wait for the second helping...
If we just spent half of this threads timeframe on the health of the American people...wow, we could be in some serious business.
Either way, hopefully Catherine has been listening in and is taking a deep breath before she joins us all on this wonderful, but crazy wild Basenji ride.
Petra
Petra, I don't understand your statement …
you wrote
If we just spent half of this threads timeframe on the health of the American people...wow, we could be in some serious business.
Do you think talking about b's health issues are overdone?
Talking about health in our breed (or any other breed) can never be talked about enough… IMO
Ok, yes, I do agree..I just wasn't sure if she thought we were doing TOO much talking re b health.
No I don't think we are talking too much about the health…among ourselves. But if we scare new people away, people that have yet to learn all about the different health issues, what good does all the talk do, that was simply my point.
By all means I enjoy the knowledge and look forward to many years of B ownership and companionship. I want to learn as much as I can about the breed and about the problems that might arise. I also think most people need to hear it, but if they get turned off from the forum in their first visit or two, how do we then teach them? Do you think those people refrain from getting a B, or do you think they simply get one but won't visit the forum again?
Y'all must clearly think I am so stupid B--ch, asking if I think we are talking too much about the health issues. Do I own one of these dogs? Do I come on here and answers questions? Clearly I too, have a devotion to my breed.
Petra
I agree knowledge is good but I do not want people to never get a B cause we run them off they would miss so much by never getting a B. It's great to have one of these babies in the house but if I had read or found this forum before I got Jaycee I may a ran away and never looked back. Bad for Jaycee and most of all us we all would loose. Yes the testing needs to be done and so called people that breed and sell and never want to see you or the puppy again need to be gone but like a house that was never in code bad people every were. I just want people to stay on here and read but most of all to also enjoy fun and pictures they are great.
Is there not some kind of information sheet or something that could be put on here some were so when new people come on here they could just go read the information. Then it would not seem like people were all comming at you? Just wondering. Thanks…
Rita Jean
Here is one piece of the comments that I want to address: " and people will keep comming back and asking questions and taking care of there B's."
This list SHOULD NOT BE the place where you get your information about your basenji. Your breeder should be the first palce that you get your information and quilte honestly they should have the best information that is specific to his/her line. If anyone gets a dog from places where we know compliants have been filed, dogs have died from things that were basically preventable, where we know if you call with a question - you won't get a call back - we do get a little frustrated. We know then you are going to rely on us - from all over the country to give you information and we ask about lineage so we can search our records or memory banks on what we know about the background of your dogs.
Several of us (and keep in mind that I have not bred a basnji litter in 6 years - so not that I'm trying to sell something here) are just amazed that folks can not find those of us with information to share and an extensive knowledge base, when they are looking for a puppy - but always seem to find us when they have a problem with the puppy they get.
Some because they did not want to wait until the next breeding season because we all know that basenjis are typically in season 1 time a year (although I am hearing that some that folks have gotten dogs from recently - are using chemicals and hormones to induce a second season). appears that many decide they want a basenji now and that's that. They will go to whoever has puppies without doing the research. Many times people love that they can see a whole litter and pick - when most of us know that some basenjis should not be in some situations and try to place a puppy specifically to avoid future issues.
Believe me - most of us that have been doing this since the beginning of time have many things we could be doing rather than answer questions to help folks live and enjoy their basenji. We try to help people with questions and why we ask for the liniage is it helps us get to what the problem might be if it is something genetic or that we've seen from a particular line before.
Maybe when someone posts a hey we're new - we need to have and auto reply that says - if we ask about your puppy and where you got it - it is only to anticipate problems you may have.
