New potential Basenji Owner in Wisconsin–-am a little scared!

[ComicDom1]

Catherine,

We have been discussing your trip and are wondering how it went? Did you get a pup? If you haven't decided yet we would strongly caution you, like the others, not to purchase from this breeder.

Jason and Randa

[dmcarty]

@basenji_fan:

It took forever to find pictures and names of the dogs on the site, but I have seen the dogs on here before and I think that the dogs have been tested as carriers for fanconi, I can't remember but wasn't there a lady that had a pup come up affected from here?

http://www.hestekinhills.com/Ba.htm

Only 5 of the animals from that kennel have been tested and it does not include the sire and dam of the litter unless they were submitted under a call name or under puppy - on both sides there are carriers at least - that are on the list as well as the sire of these puppies is from a litter that had at least one affected.

I would be concerned about the gaps of current dogs not tested - or at least not yet reported on the website and the fact that behind the mom in particular are some famous PM with fanconi and nasty temperament (ponderosa, Hoefer etc)

But everyone has to make their own decisions - we can provide information but if people chose not to believe us - well that's their choice.

[lvoss]

I am not sure which litter you are talking about Diane, 1 litter has 1 parent tested, the other doesn't have enough information to check.

Litter #1 - Hestekin Hills Harrison Ford (untested) x Hestekin Hills Here I Am (Probably Clear, no other health testing) Also the dam's results were not received until 2 weeks after the litter was born so it was just luck that the dam was clear.

Litter #2 - No registered names given that I can find to check parents.

[dmcarty]

Litter one sire is a litter mate to the Affected dog - so…..... we don't know about that one - the bitch had not come up on my first search but did when I only put the first part of the kennel name. I cross reference names with the Pedigree database to see who was out of whom. hence I know that Harrison ford was out of the same litter that the affected boy is out of.

No idea about litter 2 - no names other than 'classy' given. Nothing obvious matched on the pedigree data base and no sire name.

But again - her decision -we can only provide information and support.

[sharronhurlbut]

Oh, its a shame that there isn't a "doggie" lemon law in all states.
That way, when you lose a beloved pet you could sue.
Sigh.

[dmcarty]

FYI - here is a link to some of the lemon laws that I found a few years ago. http://www.malteseonly.com/lemon.html

[ComicDom1]

If the person that started this thread has not gotten a puppy, there is a nice puppy that is 4 months old posted on this board from a Mark who is in the Military and is going to Iraq in June/July.

Jason and Randa

[kiroja]

Another thing that struck me as odd was that her first litter, "Mia"'s litter I think, had lots of trindle pups out of two tri-color parents. Which is genetically impossible. The sire has brindle behind him so I suppose there is a slight chance that he is really a trindle but they don't see any stripes and registered him wrong. But I would think that would be aweful rare that there are NO stripes anywhere on that tan, not face, nor legs, nor rear end? Hmmmm.

[gneigum]

Hello Catherine & welcome from Canada. I hope you haven't been scared off by all the posts here, but there is a lot of good advice, especially since you had posted about the scared part. I hope that whatever you decide, you will continue with this forum. It definately helps to know that I'm not the only one that has the ocassional rebel.
Anyway, nice to have you here, & happy Easter.

G

[nomrbddgs]

Actually Kelli, it's totally possible. If one of the parents have brindle parent, It definitely can happen. I know of one litter who was bred black to red. The black had a brindle parent. Out came blacks, reds and trindle. Totally possible.

[Janneke]

@nomrbddgs:

Actually Kelli, it's totally possible. If one of the parents have brindle parent, It definitely can happen. I know of one litter who was bred black to red. The black had a brindle parent. Out came blacks, reds and trindle. Totally possible.

Yes, but on a black you can't see the brindle, and on a Tri you should see the brindle in the red parts, which would make him a trindle..

[kiroja]

Exactly Janneke. I think one of the parents was trindle so there is a possibility of passing on that brindle gene. But it's a TRI, not a black. There should be lots of areas of tan for the stripes to show through, unless the dog has excessive white markings. But I've seen quite a few trindles and even on lightly brindled "trindles", it's still obvious that there's stripes there.

I have heard of a few "regular" brindles over the years with only a handful of stripes across their whole body so there is a chance there just happens to be no stripes on any visible tan in the tri. Just VERY unlikely in my opinion. There are certainly many instances of pedigrees not being what they really are from some breeders, so it's just one extra thing that makes you go hmmm. Of course a little less clear cut than other examples, but still.

[Quercus]

@kiroja:

Exactly Janneke. I think one of the parents was trindle so there is a possibility of passing on that brindle gene. But it's a TRI, not a black. There should be lots of areas of tan for the stripes to show through, unless the dog has excessive white markings. But I've seen quite a few trindles and even on lightly brindled "trindles", it's still obvious that there's stripes there.

I have heard of a few "regular" brindles over the years with only a handful of stripes across their whole body so there is a chance there just happens to be no stripes on any visible tan in the tri. Just VERY unlikely in my opinion. There are certainly many instances of pedigrees not being what they really are from some breeders, so it's just one extra thing that makes you go hmmm. Of course a little less clear cut than other examples, but still.

I think it could happen Kelli. Someone might not notice, or KNOW, or CARE that there shouldn't be any black smudges in the tan of a tri for it NOT to be a trindle. That distinction is very important for people who are keeping accurate records, and preserving a breed…it isn't so important if you are just trying to sell puppies

[Quercus]

@Janneke:

Yes, but on a black you can't see the brindle, and on a Tri you should see the brindle in the red parts, which would make him a trindle..

Right, you can't get a brindle puppy without a brindle parent (genetically)…a black dog may not "look" brindle...or in this case, I suppose, a tri dog may not "look" trindle...but the stripes are masked by the black...they are still there though.

[nomrbddgs]

The one puppy in a recent litter of ALL trindles suddenly morphed into a tri. The two black stripes that were there, disappeared. One person now thinks that if they breed, they will only get tri's. Not so IMO. Could still end up with trindles. Personally I didn't agree with the breeding anyway. So one of the parents of this litter definitely could have been a trindle. Sorry Kelli, I misunderstood.

[YodelDogs]

@kiroja:

Another thing that struck me as odd was that her first litter, "Mia"'s litter I think, had lots of trindle pups out of two tri-color parents.

I don't see a pic of the sire but based on the appearance of the pups, I wouldn't be suprised if he was a "Taco Bell" Chihuahua. :eek:

[sharronhurlbut]

Oh, Yodeldogs that is BAD and so very TRUE! laugh, except its not very funny now is it?

[kiroja]

That's what I thought too Robyn! Eeek!

On the color issue, you're right Andrea, some people just don't care, don't know, or are more focused on other things. But I figured she knew very well what trindles were because she recognized the pups as such and has older dogs registered as trindles. Plus she seems to take pride in AKC and promotes them and I would think she would want them registered correctly. lol

[brianpoppee]

I spent 1 + years looking for the perfect Basenji. I talked to more breeders than I can count. I could not find the perfect puppy until I met Teresas pups, the 5th breeder I visited in person. I narrowed my options down to 4 pups, each better than any I had seen at previous visits with other breeders and I had a hard time picking just one. Teresa was very patient, understanding and knowledgeable. These pups are amazing with unique characters of their own and they all loved me. After a couple hours of playtime I finally picked one and my long search ended here. Teresa is very helpful and has great knowledge which shows through in the pups. The other professional breeders I visited DO NOT compare. I had my own post on here too and was discouraged and dis-hearted by these so called Basenji club members, I am glad I didn't listen to them.

Talking dogs has somehow turned into a war on here, it is a real turn off, or is to me. I wrote asking for information and help finding a basenji puppy, and I left feeling like I did not want a dog of any sort especially a Basenji. Breeders on here talk bad about each other and each others bloodlines. Dogs I looked at were picked apart and cut on by your forum members, it became obvious to me that there is no perfect bloodline. Each tried to sell me their pup or their friends pup, with co-ownership (which means I only own 1/2 of my own dog) No one gave me honest true advice without insulting someone. I almost decided to look at another breed and then I stumbled on Teresa. She invited me into her home (did not suggest meeting me at the gas station like SW) She showed me available pups and not available pups, the parents were all impressive. She showed me what she felt was good and bad about each pup, who had more of the laid back personality, who was the leader… She did her best to answer my questions and I could tell she was more than just a breeder, she knew each and every pup better than anyone I have ever spoke to... I got a folder full of information, some I haven't even read through yet. Health records are impressive, she already had some spay/neutered. Pups that were ? on fanconi had individual tests by mc#. Prices start at $575 for pets. I wanted to show but knew after this forum that I was not going to show. My pup is from Princess (fanconi clear) and Oscar (fanconi affected) so my pup will never have fanconi but might carry the gene to reproduce it, but he is neutered. For future reference I strongly suggest that the back stabbing between members stops, when people (like myself) ask questions and ask for assistance, your bickering, fighting and rude comments are a huge turn off. I almost passed on the Basenji breed because of this forum. I am now a happy Basenji owner but no thanks to any of you.

[Nemo]

@brianpoppee:

I spent 1 + years looking for the perfect Basenji. I talked to more breeders than I can count. I could not find the perfect puppy until I met Teresas pups, the 5th breeder I visited in person. I narrowed my options down to 4 pups, each better than any I had seen at previous visits with other breeders and I had a hard time picking just one. Teresa was very patient, understanding and knowledgeable. These pups are amazing with unique characters of their own and they all loved me. After a couple hours of playtime I finally picked one and my long search ended here. Teresa is very helpful and has great knowledge which shows through in the pups. The other professional breeders I visited DO NOT compare. I had my own post on here too and was discouraged and dis-hearted by these so called Basenji club members, I am glad I didn't listen to them.

I'm sorry you had that experience. It's very different than mine, pretty much everyone I met and talked to locally was very friendly.