@senjisilly just now saw your reply. Thanks for the pedigree website. I knew about it and it’s a great resource.
Pedigree
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"WL's Todd is sired by Hestekin Hills Dynamite Tom, out of WL's Taylor D and that bitch on the Dam's side goes back to a Fanconi Affected dog by the name of Hofer Zipper. Hofer was known puppy mill now out of business with heavy Fanconi and Hip problems"
Hestikin Hills has an interesting storyline - her original stuff came from Betty Sweeter in Foley MN who has been in the newspaper several times for her sick and dying dogs of many breeds. She has significant fanconi, hip dysplasia AND the only to my knowledge recorded 2 cases of Von Wildebrands disease (of course don't know if there are more unless they find me.) VWD is a Doberman blood disorder.
Her HH's stuff came from there and then she got a Budlight grandson by misrepresenting herself - breeder tried to get the dog back through the courts so she showed him a couple of times to demonstrate that she shows and sent him up to Canada to get a Canadian CH. She bred him a lot and as soon as she could have bitches where the Sweeter stuff didn't show up as much she pulled her significantly fanconi bitches of the internet. She then got 2 males from the N'Har stud because that breeder did not believe anyone who told her the kind of operation she has. (she has also has similar difficulties with the IG clubs - and was taking in rescues and breeding them from what I've been told.
She has done enough breeding now that some of the 'danger' dogs don't show up anymore and she is careful on what pedigrees that she posts. HH Dynomite Tom ended up at an auction I believe in MO along with at least 2 other Hestikin HIlls dogs - this is what she appears to do with animals that she can't sell.
On her website she will tell you that she is with the Wisconsin Humane Society and that she is a CGC evaluator (that requires that you fill out a form and mail it in with some money)
She prefers to show in Canada - and preferes to register with APR and thinks that basenji clubs are naughty mean people.
She is in Wisconsin - and I actually met her at a show and she showed me a pedigree and I said at least it's better than what she had before and she said what do you mean - and I told her the bitches names and she denied she ever had them. (I had copies of their pedigrees from her site.)
In any event - there are some advantages of being older than dirt and one of them is - I have a long history of some of these names.
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And there are 2 lovely litters in Indiana one is 3/4 african I believe and there are 2 brindles and the rest red&Whilte and the other litter is all red and white - all from well bred and well tested animals - with responsible breeders.
But that's how it goes.
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We can share all we know. Its up to the person to decide what they are going to do.
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I am late to this discussion but if anyone is interested, I can post the history of WL's Kennel, Walter and Lois Choate. I am also familiar with Dixie Maxwell. I have met and spoken with both of them at dog auctions.
Jennifer
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Jennifer, I seem to remember you from somewhere… is it from the pedigree database??? I am interested to learn more of the WL line and history. Seems as though this bunch has branched out like crazy... And to be honest, it is not a good thing! My Bella is one of the offspring of the WL & KKDK clan. I have to worry about her health because of poor ancestry... Please do share the info with me. I am going to try to get a link to my email on my page, if you would like to email me personally!
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Jennifer, I seem to remember you from somewhere… is it from the pedigree database??? I am interested to learn more of the WL line and history. Seems as though this bunch has branched out like crazy... And to be honest, it is not a good thing! My Bella is one of the offspring of the WL & KKDK clan. I have to worry about her health because of poor ancestry... Please do share the info with me. I am going to try to get a link to my email on my page, if you would like to email me personally!
I could be wrong, but the ID is the same as her email so I am pretty sure this is the Jennifer who works with the auctions for BRAT. If so, she was going to send Dash's info to the database.
When I spoke with her recently I was amazed how she kept all these dogs names and lines in her head. We are so lucky to have such amazing resources at our disposal.
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Just to correct a misunderstanding, I do not rescue Bs from the auctions for BRAT. Earlier this year I picked up some Bs at the OH auction location but they were not sold at the auction and most of them did go to BRAT. They were a breeder/dealer/broker turnover. I have one at my place who I considered to have too much of a socialization problem to go to BRAT. I am presently fostering an elderly B, 15 years old, for BRAT.
I consider myself an independent B rescuer who usually rescues from the auctions. I do have a Petfinder account, Jen's Rescue, but my adoptions are usually done by word of mouth. Some of my Bs may have some health issues, most are usually minor. I do most of the hereditary testing on my rescues, including the Fanconi DNA testing, thyroid testing, CERF eye exams, and hip x-rays, read by a vet only, not sent in to OFA for reading. The hip x-rays I have only done if I notice a gait/running problem or if the B might do lure coursing. I do not have the other tests turned in to OFA for publication since the extra cost would add up to quite a bit for all of the rescues but I keep all the records .
One thing I recommend is to teach your dogs at a young age to take pills. I teach my rescues by giving them brewers yeast tablets coated with canned food. All of my dogs come running to the kitchen when I say "pills". This helps if your dog ever has to take antibiotics, thyroid medication, pain medication, and/or the pills for Fanconi. I consider it just as important as crate training. My last one and my present one with Fanconi were/are wonderful pill takers and I believe this has helped them live longer than some other Bs with Fanconi. (This probably should be posted on another forum thread.)
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Hestekin Hills has an interesting storyline which is all made up and fabricated by dmcarty and Sally Wournus.
The real story line is: Hestekin Hills got her first 4 Basenji dogs from a breeder in Neillsville, WI named Lynn Evans. Lynn Evans had purchased 2 males and 2 females from a South Dakota breeder (one male was tom) Lynn Evans had big intentions to show her new dogs but quickly decided that showing was not the fun that she was expecting it to be. The basenji show group was down right mean to her!
Hestekin Hills is not associated with, not friends with, and does not deal with Betty Sweeter (this is one of the many lies made up by dmcarty) Evans Diamond Dutches, Evans Diamond Dezaray, Hestekin Hills Dynamite Tom, and Evans Diamond Drummer. Drummer (Toms sire) was adopted out to a family in Hudson. Tom was adopted out to a breeder/show home in Oklahoma where the breeder quickly grew, and after a run in with dmcarty and friends decided to no longer show. 8 years later this breeder sold some of her dogs by way of an auction, this was not Hestekin Hills who put Tom in the auction, and there were no other Hestekin Hills dog in this action as dmcarty claims. Tom was picked up by the rescue and place in a great pet home where they love him dearly. This family contacted Hestekin Hills after they adopted Tom and they have kept in touch with each other since:–---Original Message-----
Hi Teresa!
Nice to hear from you. Tom is doing fantastic! We love him so much, that we added a female Basenji puppy to our family in May 2007. Tom and Phoebe are best pals. They enjoy walks in the park, tug-o-war with each other, and 500s in the backyard (and sometimes in the house!). Tom doesn't act like he's ten! Both dogs sleep with our 11-year-old daughter and will snuggle with whoever is sitting in the recliner in our living room. Basically spoiled rotten! Have a happy new year!
Jamie D. Honeycutt
-----End Of Original Message-----Her HH's stuff came from there and then she got a Budlight grandson by misrepresenting herself
Hestekin Hills did not misrepresent herself in the purchase of Hestekin Hills Budlight King. The original contract and bill of sale can be faxed to anyone who wants it. King was delivered by Karen Kutcha to Teresa Hestekin and Karen was happy to see him going to a breeder/show home. After King attended a couple of shows and dmcarty got a look at him dmcarty was scared she would get beat (King is the perfect specimen of a Basenji) Dmcarty at that time started making up stories and lies about this great dog. She contacted Karen Kutcha and talked her into taking Teresa Hestekin to court, where Karen Kutchas tried to claim that King was not paid for. The original bill of sale/contract was presented at the time of court and the judge slapped Karen Kutcha on the hand and scoulded her for lying but Hestekin Hills did not file another action against Karen for the lie. Teresa Hestekin, thinking that something happened to Karen Kutchas dog offered Karen a pick puppy from an upcoming litter (just to be nice). Even after this great effort to be nice to Karen Kutcha, Karen proceeded to send threats to Teresa Hestekin stating that Karen or a friend of Karens (meaning dmcarty and Sally Wuornos) would poison or steal King if they seen him at a show, so for the safety and well being of King he finished his Canadian Championship and was not shown again at AKC events. Anyone who loves their dog would have done the same thing for his protection wouldn't they? Now where is sportsmanship in all of this? If you go to basenjipedigrees.com you can see the 3 litters that King has sired. King is now 9 years old, and in these 9 years there have been a ton of tall tales developed by this Basenji club.Hestekin Hills has never had any issues with the Italian Greyhound club as dmcarty claims. The Italian Greyhound club is a group of wonderful people who are honest, helpful and have sportsmanship values (yes they believe in sportsmanship)
Teresa Hestekin is a CGC evaluator she holds 2 clinics per year at her kennel/home.Teresa Hestekin registers her dogs with only AKC (she does not use APR as dmcarty claims) She shows AKC mostly but when her dogs life is threated by poor sports she will show in Canada.
At one show Teresa Hestekin met dmcarty, and wanted to talk about pedigrees and breeding dmcarty was not helpful but was rude, crude and down right nasty (this was 9 years of so ago) Another basenji breeder confronted Teresa Hestekin and told her that dmcarty is a poor sport and hates to loose, she is mean to all new comers so no one will show against her! That is why in this area there are so few Basenji dogs in the show ring. (Where is the sportsmanship in that?)
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I don't know if tar9091 is Teresa Hestekin talking about herself in the third person or someone else who has chosen to use the same ID as Teresa's email address. To whomever it may, if anyone has gotten the idea that Teresa Hestekin uses alternative registries it is from Teresa's own site that they would have gotten that impression. http://www.hestekinhills.com/Baa.htm
It clearly states as point 1 of My Affliations and Registries that Teresa Hestekin is in good standing with AKC, APR, UKC, CKC, RKF, UKCI, and more, how can you be in good standing with an organization you do not use or are not a part of?
I have no idea which side is telling the truth but would urge anyone to do their own research and look for verifiable facts such as using the OFA database to confirm health testing is done, making sure that both parents of any litter are clearly listed by either registered name or number so they can be looked up in the AKC and OFA database.
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How would you look to verify health concerns that aren't on the OFA? Is there any way to do so? I'm thinking mainly of checking for an autoimmune problem.
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Autoimmune Thyroiditis is an OFA test but it is only a semi-open database meaning only normal results are required to be listed. There is no way to currently check for other autoimmune diseases but there are some breeders who have made their dogs status public and that information can be verified if you know where to look.
OFA's position about lack of test results is that if a dog does not have a test result listed then they should be considered to have the disorder.
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Why do you people insist on the lies?
Dogs being shown with these clubs, and being involved in all of these clubs is involvement! APR has Teresa Hestekin speaking at seminars for them, this I would assume is involvement is it not?Email Teresa Hestekin directly and ask for the receipts and emails, she has proof that will knock your socks off, her proof involves many basenji club members (some not mentioned in the previous write up)
and on the website you quote: "with each puppy it clearly states: AKC registered"
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Hestekin Hills sells puppies for about $575.00 each is that high? How much are you puppies?
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People can believe what they choose to believe - I will say that I have never met at a show anyone named Lyn Evans and will also say that the basenji community in MN is so small that we all know each other - new faces are always greeted. I have not been to anywhere in Oklahoma to run in to anyone 'getting started in basenjis' in Oklahoma and seldom show outside of my immediate area - quite frankly have not been in a show ring with any basenjis for quite sometime aside from the occasional appearance with a veteran at a specialty.
The information I have gotten through the years has been directly from the website of the people in question. I have nothing to gain, no puppies to sell and no reason to make up stories and those who know me know that I am far to busy to be bothered making things up.
People can choose to listen to warning about breeders who have been less than honest or not - purchasing anything is Caveat Emptor (buyer beware). It just makes me sad to know that some of the animals purchased in spite of warnings will have sad owners on the list or other lists looking for help.
The one thing that has saved this breed from the fate of many others with horrid genetic diseases is open and honest sharing of information. I hope it can continue
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https://www.akc.org/pdfs/AKC_code_of_sportsmanship.pdf
AKC Code of Sportsmanship link for those who wish to read it!And here is another interesting quote from Hestekin Hills website:
Dog showing can be an entertaining sport, it should be fun for the experienced and also the beginner. I personally feel that it is highly unethical to openly attack, embarrass or belittle anyone whether they are experienced in the ring or a new comer to the ring. Why can't we all be good sports about showing and competing? Yes showing is a sport, it can be very competitive, but sometimes I can't help wondering where the "SPORT" in sportsmanship ever went?Link here to read: AKC Code of Sportsmanship: https://www.akc.org/pdfs/AKC_code_of_sportsmanship.pdf
I do not make the practice of bad mouthing other breeders, and I will not answer personal questions about other breeders. I will however offer my aid with any problems concerning health, behavior, house training or any other puppy issue you may encounter, whether the puppy was from me or another breeder is not the issue. It is important that you get the best possible dog you can as a dog of any breed is a lifetime commitment. A well bred puppy will hopefully save you expensive vet bills and the heartache of health problems in your time together.
The reason a dog has so many friends is that he wags his tail instead of his tongue.
-AnonymousCHOOSING A BREEDER: Choosing a breeder is totally up to the purchaser. It is highly unethical to openly attack another breeder to anyone, and if you find one of these sorts of breeders I recommend staying clear of them. Please do not email me asking me about another breeder or what I think of their dogs, it honestly is up to you to make that determination of which breeder you want to deal with. It is not my place to judge the creditability or honesty of any breeder.
You can read more online at: http://hestekinhills.com/Ba6.htm
Hmmm someone out there has standards!
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I don't know if tar9091 is Teresa Hestekin talking about herself in the third person or someone else who has chosen to use the same ID as Teresa's email address. To whomever it may, if anyone has gotten the idea that Teresa Hestekin uses alternative registries it is from Teresa's own site that they would have gotten that impression. http://www.hestekinhills.com/Baa.htm
It clearly states as point 1 of My Affliations and Registries that Teresa Hestekin is in good standing with AKC, APR, UKC, CKC, RKF, UKCI, and more, how can you be in good standing with an organization you do not use or are not a part of?
I have no idea which side is telling the truth but would urge anyone to do their own research and look for verifiable facts such as using the OFA database to confirm health testing is done, making sure that both parents of any litter are clearly listed by either registered name or number so they can be looked up in the AKC and OFA database.
And that the sires and dams are DNA for parentage with AKC so that the pup you get can be proven to be of the parents listed on the papers.
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Hello -heard I was mentioned here thought I'd check in…
The answer to the previous question - my dogs came from South Dakota (that breeder is no longer breeding)
I went to a couple shows WI and MN and never met a basenji breeder I cared to keep in contact with - quit the breed - due to mean people! All is true!
Signing out now - as I don't care to bash people like the rest of you! -
Let's stay on topic and please keep it civil. Bashing other members and posting personal emails is not allowed here.
This is a forum for the discussion of Basenjis, not a dueling society. If you feel attacked, please report it to the admin and then ignore the poster. The moderator will take care of the situation. Remember, however much you were provoked, if you attack a poster personally then you are just as guilty of breaking the rules.
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And that the sires and dams are DNA for parentage with AKC so that the pup you get can be proven to be of the parents listed on the papers.
So Pat Fragassi of Tanza Basenjis what you are saying is that the sire and dam you list on your AKC papers is not the actual sire and dam to the puppies you place on these AKC papers? Why would you do this? Would you not be kicked out of AKC for doing this? Everyone with a puppy should DNA it to find out who it's parents are as it appears some Basenji club breeders might not be putting down the right parents right? Again, why would you do this?
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No, what she is saying is that buyers should look for parents that have AKC DNA profiles so they can verify independently by doing their own DNA profile and requesting and AKC DNA certified pedigree that their puppy really is from the parents stated on the papers.
