Is my basenji from a legit breeder?

[tanza]

@MEANDI:

How do we even know shes from a puppymill. I didnt pay very much for her. Im not disagreeing or anything isnt everything said just hearsay there arent straight facts showing shes from a puppymill

This person that you purchased from is a Puppy Mill type.. and it is usually puppy millers or those that are pretty darn close to a puppy miller that would sell their "X" breedings dogs at an auction. There is NO responsible breeder that would do that … she breeds to sell puppies and make money, period and that makes her a "pure for profit" breeder. She is not breeding for the good of the breed. Straight facts are:
1. Not AKC registered
2. No health testing (DNA for Fanconi, Hips, Eyes, Patellas, etc)
3. Shipping puppies all over the country without screening buyers
4. Doesn't require Spay/Neuter
5. Sell no long "usable" dogs at auction to the highest bidder
6. Sells at auction in-tact so yet another person can just use them as breeding dogs with no concern for the dog themselves.

If you go to this link, this will so you how to find a responsible breeder http://www.tanzabasenjis.net/selectbreeder.html
You can also find this link at www.basenji.org (Basenji Club of America website)

[JazzysMom]

I think it's not important at this point to focus overmuch on whether or not she's from a puppymill.

What DOES matter is getting the health testing done –again,esp. Fanconi --
provide a good, responsible home and ENJOY your pet!

[tanza]

@JazzysMom:

I think it's not important at this point to focus overmuch on whether or not she's from a puppymill.

What DOES matter is getting the health testing done –again,esp. Fanconi --
provide a good, responsible home and ENJOY your pet!

Exactly…

[MEANDI]

say i wanted to breed her start with her as being the first generation. Couldnt i get her AKC registered if i wanted to start with her?

[tanza]

@MEANDI:

say i wanted to breed her start with her as being the first generation. Couldnt i get her AKC registered if i wanted to start with her?

Nope… not possible... they must already be AKC registered before breeding.. her sire and dam are not AKC registered so there is no way to get her registered.....

[JazzysMom]

@MEANDI:

say i wanted to breed her start with her as being the first generation. Couldnt i get her AKC registered if i wanted to start with her?

Without a decent health history, why would you want to breed her?

[Natalplum]

I'm in the same boat Meandi. We got our boy from a Pet Store. His papers reveal the breeder and his parents but I've had no luck contacting them regarding any testing that has been done on him. I'm so nervous about getting him tested.

[tanza]

@Natalplum:

I'm in the same boat Meandi. We got our boy from a Pet Store. His papers reveal the breeder and his parents but I've had no luck contacting them regarding any testing that has been done on him. I'm so nervous about getting him tested.

If the parents are not listed on the OFA site, then they have not been tested at least not for Hips, patellas, DNA for Fanconi, etc.

And you know all of us were in the same boat with the DNA test for Fanconi first came out about testing… and being nervous....

[tanza]

@JazzysMom:

Without a decent health history, why would you want to breed her?

And you have to ask "why do you want to breed in the first place?"… just to have puppies is not a good enough reason for a responsible breeder.....

[MacPack]

Speaking only from my own perspective as a "pet owner" of rescued dogs:
AKC is the real, official registry used by responsible breeders, other registries are "knock-offs", invented so pet stores and puppy-mills and BYBs can sell "registered" dogs, as I understand it. The only reason you NEED to be registered is to compete in conformation, lure coursing, showing or agility to get championship points, or to start a breeding program yourself (after reaching those championship goals in some of the aforementioned activities).

If your basenji is "just" your pet, love of your life, best friend and roommate, having them registered isn't really important. Shelter rescue basenjis and many others in rescue don't have papers but are purebred basenjis. Once neutered it doesn't matter as you can get the ILP certification to compete in all activities except conformation.

The really important thing that hopefully comes with the AKC responsibly bred dog is health testing and healthy parents and grandparents. You probably won't have that with the knock-off registries, but you can do it yourself for your own peace of mind, especially the Fanconi testing. There really isn't much reason to do some of the other testing, as hopefully no one would breed a dog without that deep background knowledge of genetic health and soundness along with great conformation, the things that make a dog worthy of having their genes passed along. There are so many thousands of dogs, including basenjis, euthanized every year that need homes so there is no reason for anyone to breed dogs that aren't healthy and genetically sound!

Thank goodness there are responsible breeders that supply us with healthy pets and show dogs, and if ever the shelters empty out and there are more waiting homes than there are dogs, then the good breeders can pick up the pace! But I'm afraid that for the near future, there will be enough basenjis and other breeds supplied by BYB and shelters to fill all the available homes.

So enough of my soapbox, sorry, once I get going it's hard to stop. Love your dogs, register them with AKC or neuter them and get an ILP and go for some agility or Rally, obedience, or coursing, or just take long walks with your beloved basenjis and enjoy them for the unique 'people' they are!

Anne in Tampa

[Natalplum]

Would it be wrong to post the breeders name here to see if anyone knows anything about him?

[tanza]

@Natalplum:

Would it be wrong to post the breeders name here to see if anyone knows anything about him?

Not at all

[tanza]

The one thing that I would add to Anna's excellent post about health testing, things you really do want to do (besides the obvious in DNA for Fanconi) would be Thyroid tests (a full panel that typically needs to be sent to a different lab then your regular Vet would use) as many Basenjis suffer from Low Thyroid. Have your regular Vet check your Basenjis Patellas… Eye exams by a Board Certified Vet, we have late onset PRA in Basenjis that causes Blindness and while there is no cure, it is good to keep an "eye" out for potential problems. Also there are other eye problems that only a certified Ophth can find... Good to have a base line as a pup and then if there is nothing of concern, one every two years is good... once they are older (like over 10 to 12) one every year might be in order if there is something going on. Cataracts are pretty coming in all older dogs. Hips are worth checking, especially if you are really active with your Basenjis...

And I am BIG on Blood work... at least a base line and then at least every two years till age 10.. then usually once a year. And of course before any type of surgery...

As with all of us, wellness checks are worth their weight in gold... IMO for a long and healthy life for your pet.

[lvoss]

And I am going to add in, that a good vet is worth their weight in gold. My vet checks patellas as part of their routine wellness exam. It kind of startled them the first time I brought OFA paperwork and said since we're checking anyway lets make it official but they were happy to fill it out. They offer a nice bloodwork package that makes it affordable to keep on top of how my dog's are doing. They keep up with the latest research which means vaccinations are done only once every three years and they are happy to space them out so I don't have to do rabies and DHPP on the same day. The support a proactive approach to pet health rather than a reactive one and have access to much of the latest technology meaning when my cat was ill, they had the ultrasound in house and could do the testing same day so we knew what course of action we should take. They never give me a hard time about all the health certifications that I do for my dogs and are happy to know that they are being done, because it makes their job easier.

Just like responsible breeding isn't cheap, neither is responsible pet ownership though often in the long run the money spent to be proactive means less money down the road if something does happen.

[MacPack]

I agree! Preventive medicine saves money in the long run, human or animal! My new vet does full blood panel every year, AND ultrasonic AWAKE teeth cleaning as part of the yearly physical. He believes in 3-year vaccine cycle rather than titers for adult dogs and is really down to earth. He listens and isn't offended if I mentions ending blood to Dr. Dodds. A good vet is a treasure. And all the testing anyone can afford is great! Don't forget to feed the highest quality of food you can afford, too!

Anne

[MEANDI]

I dont appreciate the fact that you say "just to have puppies is not a good enough reason for a responsible breeder" I personally can breed her for any reason i want. If your a breeder, your going to sell them. You say a person who sells dogs just for profit is wrong and irresponsible well you tell me why people sell dogs for $1000 to $2000. You cant say anything about people selling dogs just for the money because if someone is charging 1000 to 2000 dollars then i wonder what their intentions are for selling their "award winning dogs" If a responsible breeder cares about the breed then the amount they sell the dogs for wouldn't matter.

[JazzysMom]

@MEANDI:

I dont appreciate the fact that you say "just to have puppies is not a good enough reason for a responsible breeder" I personally can breed her for any reason i want. If your a breeder, your going to sell them. You say a person who sells dogs just for profit is wrong and irresponsible well you tell me why people sell dogs for $1000 to $2000. You cant say anything about people selling dogs just for the money because if someone is charging 1000 to 2000 dollars then i wonder what their intentions are for selling their "award winning dogs" If a responsible breeder cares about the breed then the amount they sell the dogs for wouldn't matter.

Yes, yes you "can" breed your dog for any reason you want to. The question becomes whether you "should" breed your dog.

You have indicated that you own a dog with uncertain heritage and an unknown health history. Again, why would you want to breed that dog when you cannot be sure what genetics you are passing on to/through the puppies? That is where the "responsible" part comes in.

Any responsible breeder, ie one who studies the family tree of the two dogs to be bred, does proper and appropriate medical testing, pregnancy care, puppy care, contract, follow-up, etc. knows that making money is not a part of breeding quality dogs. There just isn't the profit you may think when you look at the price tag of the puppy.

The goal is NOT the making of money.

Producing quality dogs that enhance and improve and maintain the breed is the goal.

BTW, if you're paying $2000 for a dog, you ARE dealing with someone who is in it for the money and you need to shop around.
Underpricing would indicate that proper care and testing hadn't been done – after all, the breeders do need to re-coup the cost they put out. Overpricing indicates sheer greed and there's a good bet that proper health testing hasn't been done, although that can be checked out.

FTR, I am NOT a breeder -- just a Basenji lover who has two incredibly beautiful Basenjis that probably would have made amazing puppies, but who recognizes the work and commitment that goes into breeding and so will remain forever "just" the owner of spayed and neutered stunning Basenjis!!

[MEANDI]

your wayyyyyyyy nicer than tanza about this subject. Anyone i come across and talk to about dogs i hear…"i payed a bundle for my dog" breeding dogs for the purpose of breeding dogs is how it should be done but i can guarantee there are more people out there that are doing it the right way of breeding but they are charging a lot of money which means they are doing it for profit. If someone just wants to breed a dog just for breeding dogs the right way shouldn't be charging these ridiculous prices you see online and in the news paper. I guess all im trying to say is even if a breeder is breeding just for breeding purposes they are still looking to make money plain and simple and people on here act as if thats not true so thats why im upset because yes my breeder may have been a backyard breeder but no one knows exactly for sure. But the fact that everyone said she was just selling the pups just to make profit i can say that about legit breeders also. And i feel like people aren't saying outright but leaning towards that the fact my basenji may not be a full line of basenji's and of course im going to be defensive about my dog ya know what i mean. Im not trying to be rude i apologize if i came across rude. Sorry people i may have offended

[Natalplum]

I feel ya Meandi! I know Mick was not cared for properly. I know that we are in for a load with all this testing that needs to be done on him. He is the most amazing dog I have ever come across and I would not trade it for the world. He may not be a show dog or come from the right place but he's mine and we love him no matter what.

[Rivermoon]

If you're looking at prices on the internet and in the paper…those are mostly BYB or puppy mill dogs. One of the breeders can actually go into the cost of whelping a litter...but they don't make money and if they do it's a pittance. They also either show and/or do lure coursing or other events to title their dogs. You also have to factor that in when you talk about the cost. I got my last pup from a breeder here and only paid $800.00 for him..that was a few years ago, so I'm sure the price has gone up some. To breed a dog of any breed just to do it isn't responsible and is why there are so many dogs left at shelters or dumped on the streets. A responsible breeder will also take a dog back at any time during it's life for any reason. Are you prepared to do that?

You may as well face the fact that your breeder was a BYB or puppy miller. A responsible breeder DOES do health testing and DOESN'T sell their dogs at auctions. My first b was a puppymill dog...I didn't know better when I got him. Did I love him any less? NO...I loved him with all my heart and he taught me a lot....about the responsiblility of dog ownership,and about basenjis. I also then learned about puppy mills, BYB and responsible breeders. Love your pup, spay her and enjoy your life with her. Learn about the breed, what a responsible breeder is and does and maybe take it on with your next dog.