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[Blitz]

Hi, I am one of the owners of Achilles
He is very aggressive, and turns on everybody, and we believe he does do have epilepsy
We cannot afford the medication and all the vet bills due to the lack of income we currently have
Any information people can email me, or let me know here would be great, I would love to have him here, but I just can't take care of him, so I want him to go to a good home that has the knowledge on this kind of thing
Thanks in advance for everything.

[nomrbddgs]

I was saying in a private post that I have had at least one dog with ep that was aggressive also. Please, don't feel bad that you cannot do anything for this dog. This will require a certain expendable income. You are doing the best thing in looking for a good home. I also currently have a dog with seizures also. So I do understand as do many of us here at the forum. Some forms of ep form in a manner that much cannot be done. I had to put my aggressive ep dog down because no one could handle him-not even the vet had seen anything like it. How old is Achilles? What info can you give me. I can pass all info on to Sue Wilcox, but I have limited info so far. Thanks.

[Blitz]

Achilles is only 5 months old, so he still has a good life to live
We got him from a pet store for free because of the epilepsy
It was only recently he started attacking multiple people, before it was only me he tried to bite

[nomrbddgs]

Have the seizures started getting worse? Have you noticed him 'zoning out' more often? Does he come out of the seizures nasty? Is he more destructive than usual or when you first got him? How aggressive is he? Is he male or female aggressive, or both? Does he shake, pace? Can he calm down at all? There are a lot of questions, I know, but it is important.

[Blitz]

He zones out alot, and alot of the time he has a glazed over look
He doesn't really have seizures, but his jaw shutters quite frequently
Male aggressive for sure, he does do tricks for treats though, he sits stays, shakes paws and all that, but whenever you don't have a treat he just tries to eat you pretty much
He does calm down if he is left alone for quite awhile, but usually around anybody he just becomes super aggressive and snappy

[nomrbddgs]

I am severley concerned about this-I don't think this is a normal epilepsy. I'm thinking this may be a neurological disorder. There have been increasing cases of brain disorders as well. What did the vet say? How long are you able to keep him while I get in touch with Sue?

The zoning out is a seizure. It is a neurological interruption of the brain neurotransmitters. Sound like a lot of dead spots. If you're wondering how I know, not only do I have experience with dogs, but I also worked with Brain injuries in humans. A lot of this happens when the brain is dying. I don't mean to scare you at all, but this may be something else. Not all vets are up to date on neurological disorders. I'll try to talk with Sue tonight to see what she can do if you want me to call her.

[nomrbddgs]

I have read the other posts and the escalating aggression. I am almost positive this dog does not have epilepsy-but a neurological disorder. The clues are there. He knows what he is doing wrong-but he can't stop. The look in his eyes before he attacks. This has NOTHING to do with training. I feel so sorry for this dog I am crying for him. This dog will never have the kind of life he should-I am so sorry. You can try the anti seizure meds, the training, etc. But I believe this will never heal. The dead spots I am referring to are like holes in the brain. The vet said at first encephalitis-I believe that it may have started like that. Does he drool excessively when he zones out-or before he attacks? He is not doing this because he is aggressive-he cannot control it. I am so so so sorry. It is like a bunch of little strokes in a person. Each time the seizure happens the brain dies a little bit more and the surrounding tissue as well. Sounds like he is zoning out more and more all the time. If he has to focus on a trick sometimes that keeps them from seizing for awhile while the neurotransmitters are working overtime. This may be why he doesn't seize during tricks. Again, if you want me too I will talk to Sue.

By the way-why it seems to be more in the evening is the activity level of the dogs rise usually in the evening-he gets tired and this will cause the seizures to be more prevelant-they may seem to last longer the more tired he gets and seem more severe.

[lvoss]

The zoning out does sound like a neurological disorder and if you would probably need to see a neurological specialist to get a true idea what is going on.

Nuerological disorders are really crushing. My aunt's first beagle puppy was not properly vaccinated by the breeder and was diagnosed with distemper only a week after they brought it home. The distemper effected her neurological function and they had to put her to sleep after only a few weeks of having her.

[tanza]

Is this the puppy that was staying with your Mom till you moved? She was also having problems with him correct with escalation aggression?
At 5 months I would say this is a real problems be it aggression or neurological.. and as Lisa said would need to see a specialist asap…. I would also agree that it is most likely a neurological disorder... and while it doesn't sound very nice, the kindest thing you might be able to do for this pup is to have him put to sleep.

[nomrbddgs]

@tanza:

Is this the puppy that was staying with your Mom till you moved? She was also having problems with him correct with escalation aggression?
At 5 months I would say this is a real problems be it aggression or neurological.. and as Lisa said would need to see a specialist asap…. I would also agree that it is most likely a neurological disorder... and while it doesn't sound very nice, the kindest thing you might be able to do for this pup is to have him put to sleep.

Oh Thank you! I was trying to say it nicely. It is so hard when you have a puppy that you have to put down. But, it really is the best thing. As I've said you don't want to see the progression. You're seeing the start of it and that's bad enough.

[Quercus]

@tanza:

Is this the puppy that was staying with your Mom till you moved? She was also having problems with him correct with escalation aggression?
At 5 months I would say this is a real problems be it aggression or neurological.. and as Lisa said would need to see a specialist asap…. I would also agree that it is most likely a neurological disorder... and while it doesn't sound very nice, the kindest thing you might be able to do for this pup is to have him put to sleep.

Ditto. I feel that seizure related aggression is really very, very rare, and often over diagnosed. I think this pup is just seriously aggressive. The freeze and zoning out is probably a predatory freeze before attack. Not a seizure. Often dogs freeze and their eyes roll back right before they cross the threshold to attack…and it sounds to me like this is what this dog is doing.

Personally, I think it would be completely irresponsible to place this dog with anyone else...and if it were mine I would euthanize ASAP. There are way too many sweet, loving, sound dogs out there than need homes to try to (perhaps futiley) rehab this one.

[luzmery928]

I have no experience with any of this except the fact that I am sorry for both this B and it's family. I'm saddened to know that this is happening and my prayers go out to all involoved.

[nomrbddgs]

Epilepsy is bad enough to watch. There are varying forms of it-including the zoning out to (my Calli has this type) full out lying down, stumbling around, drooling, paddling. It's horrible. I just hold her when she's in one to calm her so she won't get up and try to move. When they come out the are usually so tired they sleep so deep. The one that I had that was aggressive tore my whole basement up in about 20 min. Then he whined at the door. He didn't know what had happened and felt so bad about it-you could just see it.

[Duke]

I too and very sad and sorry for Achilles. He did find himself in the loving hearts of Blitz and friend srael. This little pup did not have a good chance for a healthy life as he was probably bred for profit by puppy millers and not by responsible breeders. It is apparent that Blitz and srael are trying to do the right thing for Achilles. Blitz, you are in my thoughts and prayers for your beautiful fur baby.

[Blitz]

Thanks for everything guys, this means alot
I really don't want to see this happen, and since the pet store is paying for all the vet visits and all, we will see yet what actually is wrong
nomrbddgs, thanks for all the info as well, I just hope and pray that everything will be fine
He is so young, and I love him to pieces, I just hope he turns out fine
My fiancee is crying because she also loves the dog so much, and we both hope everything will turn out for the better
But if that is the case, the neurological disorder and all, I guess the only option is euthanization?
Because I don't want him to live with this condition and be slowly dying.

[Quercus]

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Well, IMO which may be a little skewed because I work with dogs...I would be more worried about him if it ISN'T a neurological disorder.....because then he is just a VERY aggressive dog, by the description I have seen here. It is difficult to do any kind of analysis without seeing him though. Sadly, he won't be dying with a neurological disorder...just living a miserable life for possibly a very long time, with little hope of any medication or ability to train.
If this isn't a neurological disorder, and you are committed to keeping him, you will need to seek out the help of an Animal Behaviorist. You can look at this website: www.iaabc.org to find one in your area. You may be looking at years of slow behavioral change through training and management; the behaviorist may tell you that the kindest option is euthanasia.....but none of us can really tell you this without seeing him in action. This is not the kind of dog that most people want...rehoming him shouldn't really be an option, unless it is to a home that knows and has rehabbed basenjis before.
No one wants a dog like this.... and who can blame them? It is a lifetime of management and work far beyond the normal extra work a Basenji can make in our lives. This is not the dog you and your fiance wanted and hoped for....please don't feel guilty if the only realistic option turns out to be euthanasia.

[tanza]

No one wants a dog like this…. and who can blame them? It is a lifetime of management and work far beyond the normal extra work a Basenji can make in our lives. This is not the dog you and your fiance wanted and hoped for....please don't feel guilty if the only realistic option turns out to be euthanasia.<<

Well put Andrea.. and I totally agree. If this dog is just truly aggressive, someone could be seriously hurt

[Blitz]

If he turns out to be fine, I would put out the money and time for a Behaviorist
I love Basenjis, they are amazing dogs

[nala121498]

I can only add that I have been around an aggressive epileptic dog (an English Bulldog), who bit me and my mother and would lunge at us while, I'm guessing having a seizure. He used to lick the floor constantly just before getting aggressive. Not knowing what was up he was neutered, then went to U Penn (I believe) behaviorists and then finally, he had a CAT scan at a prominent NY vet hospital where the epilepsy was diagnosed. Sadly, he developed pneumonia after the anesthesia for the procedure and died. He was quite old at the time of diagnosis, though.
Sending you lots of ((hugs)) and prayers for support and quick answer. I'll be thinking of you and your family and of course, Achilles during this tough time. Please keep us updated.

[tanza]

While some might think it is cruel to put this boy down, with all this that we are hearing starting from when this pup was with the Mom…. Letting this boy pass over the rainbow bridge might be the one single act of kindness. It is never an easy decision to make, but sometimes the right choices are tough.