I had a spinal injury a few years ago and the surgeon warned me of permanent nerve damage causing incontinence being a potential consequence if it got worse. It's called "cauda equina syndrome", I did a quick search and it looks like it occurs in dogs too. Essentially you lose all nerve feeling on your bowel, hence not knowing when you need to go. I'm not sure what the solution is (if any) but it could be a clue.
Life Expectancy??
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You bring to the fore a valid point. There is no reason to breed any canine with a history of health problems. That does not improve a breed; it's just bad business.
As genetic research advances, it is known that some illnesses are genetic in orgin and others are viral. With a viable genome and meticulous cataloging, a model can be produced to yeild the ideal make-up of a Basenji to extend life. Or maybe just improve quality of life.
To take this a bit further, remember with Basenjis, Fanconi and PRA are late onset, so of course now with the DNA test for Fanconi we can test for this before breeding, but for PRA we are (no pun intended) still flying blind….
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To Rocky and his woman…
I sent you a private message with the info about the Fanconi List and how to join.
I have belonged to this list for a long time; currently treating our 4th Fanconi dog.Terry
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Please excuse my ignorance in asking this question, but as more genetic testing becomes readily available (i.e., for fanconi and other genetic disorders), and based on testing results, breeders are going to be culling (for want of a better word) dogs/lines they have bred or had planned to breed, aren't we [necessarily] further narrowing our already small gene pool if entire lines can no longer be bred due to genetic deficiencies? If so, how are breeders going to deal with that? I know we've got some new blood that is, at this point, backstage (being Fanconi tested?), but it seems to me like the B breed, as we know it, is, heartbreakingly, in a vortex into oblivion…or am I being too pessimistic (I know I tend to be)?
Also, regarding irresponsible breeders: It seems to me that trusting them to breed Fanconi carrier to Fanconi clear would be an impossible supposition. JMO, of course.
(Please don't think I'm against genetic testing, I'm all for removing genetic disorders from the gene pool.)
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Once again, my ignorance showing-blushes-a male can be affected and still be bred to a clear bitch? The progeny will test as clear? It's not the same for an affected bitch? Or is it just too dangerous for an affected bitch to be bred?
With regard to the irresponsible breeder thing, I really wasn't thinking of them testing (good gosh, that'd cut into their profit margin!), but of them somehow getting ahold of, say, a male carrier and a female carrier and breeding them, introducing (I think) at least the possibility of an affected, thereby negating the careful breeding of clears to carriers in those lines and re-introducing [an instance of] Fanconi into the breed that could extrapolate exponentially.
Do you think the breed can ever be free of at least the threat of Fanconi? Although (obviously), I know nothing of genetics, it seems like the only way to completely obliterate it would be to only breed clear to clear, and that can't be possible with the small Basenji gene pool(?).
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Once again, my ignorance showing-blushes-a male can be affected and still be bred to a clear bitch? The progeny will test as clear? It's not the same for an affected bitch? Or is it just too dangerous for an affected bitch to be bred?
With regard to the irresponsible breeder thing, I really wasn't thinking of them testing (good gosh, that'd cut into their profit margin!), but of them somehow getting ahold of, say, a male carrier and a female carrier and breeding them, introducing (I think) at least the possibility of an affected, thereby negating the careful breeding of clears to carriers in those lines and re-introducing [an instance of] Fanconi into the breed that could extrapolate exponentially.
Do you think the breed can ever be free of at least the threat of Fanconi? Although (obviously), I know nothing of genetics, it seems like the only way to completely obliterate it would be to only breed clear to clear, and that can't be possible with the small Basenji gene pool(?).
Yes, affected males could be bred to clear bitches, know however that all pups will be carriers so then those must also be bred to clears…
It is NOT necessary to only breed clear to clear, that will really hurt the gene pool and put us in the same position that happened with HA which is also a recessive gene... you can safely breed Carrier to Clear, test the offspring to see what is clear and what is not. What not to ever breed is Carrier to Carrier, Affected to Carrier. As far as breeding affected bitches, IMO it is too much strain on the body to take that chance.... even if they are not yet expressing Fanconi. It is possible to breed out Fanconi, but only with careful breeding and not by throwing the baby out with the bath water...
Regarding "back yard breeders" and puppy mills breeding affected and/or carriers back into the gene pool, that will happen as they will never test.. the course of action is to educate the public on were to buy a puppy.. (and this goes for any breed) ....
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Well, responsbile breeders will test puppies before they leave, they will know who is carrier and who is clear….carriers that will be placed as pets must be placed in responsible homes that will show proof of spay and neuter. Carriers that are kept by breeders will be bred to clears, lather, rinse, repeat...
Some breeders may choose to keep only clears to go on with their breeding program...it would definitely be my priority, rather than show qualities...but it isn't a necessity.It will take years, and generations for the majority of breeders to have all clears.....but I have faith that it will happen. Particularly when the buying public knows that they can either buy a puppy that won't get Fanconi, or take their chances with an irresponsible breeder....
As far as the male affected question....it is a commonly held understaning that the stress of pregnancy on the kidneys causes a Fanconi affected bitch to start exhibiting symptoms, and to hasten the progression of the disease. It is mostly anecdotal, but does seem to run true among all breeders that have had a brood bitch start to spill sugar; it happens directly after raising a litter.
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In the end, yes, the only way to irradicate the recessive gene is to breed clear to clear…but it doesn't have to, and shouldn't happen in just a few generations, you would loose about half the population of basenjis. By doing it slower, and including carriers in the breedings you can do it without losing as much diversity.
There will probably always be some untested pockets of Fanconi...kind of like there are still pockets of Hemolytic Anemia...but we can, and will irradicate from the breeding population for all intents and purposes._
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Responsible breeders will test their stock and breed accordingly so no affecteds are produced. Irresponsible breeders will not test and will continue to produce affecteds and will continue to use the same reasons they currently do unless buyers become educated and refuse to buy a puppy unless they see a test result for the parents in the OFA database. The fact that fanconi will persist in the irresponsibly bred population of dogs will not effect the efforts of responsible breeders since they will only use tested stock. The people who will be affected by the irresponsible breeders are those who continue to buy puppies from them and then have to deal with this horrible and now avoidable disease.
The message to anyone considering buying a puppy needs to be clear, repeated, and hopefully heard. At least 1 parent in every breeding should have a DNA Marker Test for Fanconi Syndrome with a result of Probably Clear/Normal. If you can not verify this on OFA after 2 weeks of being told by the breeder that this is the case then do not buy a puppy from that breeder. 2 weeks is the current lag time between a person recieving their emailed results from the lab and the results being publicly posted on the OFA website.
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Sincere thanks to you all for enlightening me. I feel I now, at least, have a basic understanding as to what's going on with Fanconi in our beloved breed.
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Thank you for taking the time to ask questions and become better informed. It is really important for the long term good of the breed that the people that share their lives with basenjis take an interest in what is going on with the breed.
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Thank you for taking the time to ask questions and become better informed. It is really important for the long term good of the breed that the people that share their lives with basenjis take an interest in what is going on with the breed.
Well said Lisa! And that people pass that information to others….
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How old is your basenji?
I have found varying ages for the average life expectancy of Basenjis - anywhere from 8 to 16 years. While it's not the happiest topic, what experience have you forum readers had?
(Please forgive me if this has been covered somewhere else in the forums. I did a search, but couldn't find anything related.)
Thanks
My last pair of B's–-my female lived to be 15, and my male live to be 17. Both died from old age. If the two I have now live that long, they will probably outlive me.
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This thread was started in 2007, I'm curious to see if people still agree with the life expectancy of our breed, or if in the last few years people's opinions have lengthened on expectancy??
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I think the average is still 14 to 16 years, give or take
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I think it'll be intersting to see if members of the forum will agree, especially since the inception of the direct fanconi test since this thread originated…I'm hoping for 14 years minimum...16 would be great, time flies (I can't believe I've already celebrated two birthdays will my first basenji boy...it goes too quick!!)
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My very first Basenji passed away 5 weeks before her 18th birthday, so hopefully that bodes well for your first!
-Joanne -
Fourteen to sixteen matches well with my experience, but it is always too soon. OTOH, I have a 36 year old horse that is seemingly going to go on forever! I love him, but am beginning to think he will outlive me.
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i have a 15 and a 16 year old basenji, so i've bumped up my expectation to, oh, i don't know, 18?
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Joanne- I hope so!!! I feel so lucky to be in the early years with Oakley but the thoughts creep in from time to time when I realize time is flying by…I love him to pieces
36 years old is impressive for a horse eeefarm...wow.
Even at 14-16 years, that would only give me 12-14 more years...if I'm lucky and you're right- it's too short!!Glad that advances in our breeds health are taking place and I hope we can secure older age for our beloveds
