Logical, not "chicken little the sky is falling" thinking. Thanks DonC. I hate companies being gutted without evidence.
And I agree, if I had dogs - especially prone to the disorder -- on just grain-free, I might switch for added protection.
Raw vs Kibble vs Human Grade Food
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@debradownsouth said in Raw vs Kibble vs Human Grade Food:
You made my evening. (It's 7:20 pm here.)
I am so happy to have made you laugh, Deb !
The frogs didn't find it fun but as Hoover is of investigative turn of mind, they were behaving in a suicidal manner when they tried to escape very inclement weather and come in to the kitchen - That is Hoover territory. And anything jumping around there is fair game. I tried to save the second one, she didn't get to eat it but I guess it died of a heart attack or something. The first one jumped over the sill and before I realised that it was a very tiny wee frog, it had disappeared down her throat.
At least Keepurr didn't catch the deer he put up this morning.
But tell me what you have against Pedigree Chum ? We have fed it mixed with kibble for ever (well, in this country since 1982) and the dogs have one and all done well on it.
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Moose ate one of those huge waterbugs, the outdoor-breeding cockroachs, before I realized what he was stalking. I'm pretty sure he'd have had the frog too, lol.
Pedigree has cleaned up their act a lot, but it still has mystery meat products, too much grains, etc. Grain is a cheap protein, it isn't used as well as meat, and it can cause more allergic reaction. They have some variations with more meat instead of grain for protein, but even those have mystery sources for fat and other ingredients.
Obviously dogs have survived on Pedigree, Ol Roy, table scraps whatever. I just am in the camp that thinks better quality food would be beneficial. Btw, I fed Pedigree for a few years before joining AOL's canine nutrition board. My dogs didn't die.
https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/dog-food-reviews/pedigree-dog-food-dry/
http://www.dogfoodanalysis.com/dog_food_reviews/showproduct.php/product/3
https://www.dogfoodinsider.com/pedigree-dog-food-review/https://www.allaboutdogfood.co.uk/dog-food-reviews/0449/pedigree-chunks-in-jelly
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Our Basenji has had diarrhea issues forever and we tried everything. Royal Canin Hydrolized Protein has done the trick. Highly recommend it. (For occasional diarrhea, canned pumpkin works well. Also probiotics.)
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I have to wonder, Deb, if the Pedigree in the States is of identical composition to the Chum we get here. I am certainly not aware of a high dose of grain. 'Cereals' are listed but only along with the additional vitamins and minerals, vegetable etc. The kibble I use is a hypoallergenic, based on white fish. I've never used Pedigree kibble - only Wainrights (which is probably only available in UK.
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Sally I don't know. I know some of the formulas we get here in Israel are not identical to the US ones. I bet someone has it listed.
... going to check.Okay so the sited for the UK Pedigree are as negative as the US, saying grains, grain shells, mystery fat and mystery by-products of meat.
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@uconolly - Interesting mix of ingredients, don't think I would feed this... but glad that it works for your Basenji
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OK, Deb, but I'm not changing now !
We've fed Pedigree Chum since 1982 (Basenjis) and for a great deal longer (a variety of dogs, mostly adopted strays).
I once did an assessment of 'ages at death' of our dogs and came up with an average age of 13.5 years. Since then we've lost dogs at 16.5, 17 and 12.75 so something's got to justify my wish to come back in a future life as a Basenji, owned by ME !
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Sally, I think food helps. But genetics, good health care, all the things you do. Even the strays benefit from good care. Physically active, good weight... you do everything right, they can handle the Pedigree, lol. And an occasional frog.
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I [feed mine RBBB. Raw Beef Brisket Bones which the butcher slices on his band saw to the size that I dictate. There is no residue, and the Basenji thrives on them, cleaning their teeth at the same time. At 11yo, the mother had the first teeth attention while she was under anesthetic for her desexing. They did the teeth clean, no extractions, but forgot the desexing. I thought that she come out of the anesthetic well. Another trip to the vet! We have fed her from the can, and from the table, with some kibble thrown in from time to time, and found that two meals a day is the go, and stops the erks that occur in the morning. I also have fed mine this diet since 1973, with one expiring at 18yo.
Len](link url)Len aka Redial
Queensland, Australia -
Hey, this has to be Len from Australia!
No one else I know of espouses the RBBB diet, haven't heard mention of the RBBBs for quite awhile.
-Joanne -
@falcon The multi-vitamin I purchased does contain calcium, but I think perhaps a little bone meal and brewer's yeast may be good additions (periodically). I did learn (yesterday) that you can also crush up a "Tums" - which will provide the correct amount of calcium for our dogs and may be far more convenient than the egg shells.
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@debradownsouth Why do you think a variety of proteins, veggies, fruits and some grains, would be "unbalanced"? I have done extensive research and, well, "BUG" loves her dinner!
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@kjdonkers For me, full raw does seem 'odd'. I'm not talking processed raw like the pre-packaged stuff. I'm talking about straight up, nothing cooked... I did consider it but I just wasn't "sold" on the idea.
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@rocky1 gotta love the cancer free diagnosis!
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@elbrant said in Raw vs Kibble vs Human Grade Food:
@debradownsouth Why do you think a variety of proteins, veggies, fruits and some grains, would be "unbalanced"? I have done extensive research and, well, "BUG" loves her dinner!
I don't "think" it will be. I'm not a nutritionist. So you can feed vegetables but it not be the right amount or type. So I just suggested you run it by an actual veterinary nutritionist to be sure.
I was feeding raw almost 30 yrs ago, practically lived on the old aol canine nutrition board. Nearly everything we we taught by the experts of the time turned out to be...not quite correct. Thanks to proactive research for dogs (i.e. not to pad the pet food industry), we've learned more. But it changes. Beets are evil. Beets are good. Eggs are good. Raw eggs are bad. It makes my head hurt. So go with what is current research wise, keep reading for changes.
It's the part of Sally's post I agree with.. I don't think we do better than a good kibble. I do human grade, rotate food, feed some of all I eat, give veggies and fruits as small snacks.
I just believe if you aren't doing dangerous stuff, like pig ears, rawhide...well even then, it's the owner's decision. If you feel confident in the food, go for it.
Debra
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@debradownsouth I guess it was just the way you worded it. But I have researched it and added the doggie multi vitamin to help cover my bases. I feel better about this than any kibble (because I know I would just compare one brand to the next, constantly questioning if she was getting the best one).
I do agree though. The "experts" change their advice in a never ending loop: "Egg whites are better than whole eggs", "No, you can have whole eggs... much better than we thought", "Sacchrine will kill you", "Do this", "Eat that", on and on and on. Every time they come out with something, they turn around, take it back and come out with some other claim. Then there's all the freaky diets, "Dr. Atkins", "Paleo", "Vegan", "Vegetarian", "No white foods", etc., etc., etc..
The healthiest I've ever been is using moderation, the fewest possible processed foods, and limiting (but not eliminating) carbs and sweets. If I see a change in doodleBUG's health, I will make the neccessary adjustments. I just wanted to see why each of us favored the diets we choose (for our B's).
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@redial I have to ask: how big did you have the butcher slice the bones (for your Basenji)? If I try this... how big, or rather how small, should I have them cut it?
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Elbrant,
50 to 75mm (2 to 3 inches). -
I used to give knuckle and marrow bones ... then my vet took a light and showed me the major cracks in 2 of my 5 dogs teeth. So watch for aggressive chewers. Sigh. I moved to frozen turkey necks. The shape seemed to clean their teeth but they didn't hurt the teeth.
I really should try marrow bones again with Moose. Cara can't handle any raw, but I could make it his crate treat while I'm in classes.
Debra
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@debradownsouth said in Raw vs Kibble vs Human Grade Food:
I used to give knuckle and marrow bones ... then my vet took a light and showed me the major cracks in 2 of my 5 dogs teeth. So watch for aggressive chewers.
I had the same experience with my Perry. I had to stop giving him bones. I think raw is probably fine unless the dog has immune issues. And of course just like meat for humans you need to be careful how you handle it and guard against cross contamination in the kitchen. Much poultry carries Salmonella. Dogs will shed it in their feces if the food they are eating is contaminated.....
Personally I liked dehydrated food......I used NRG........because it has the convenience of kibble, but is not so overly processed. That said, my second Basenji girl ate mostly Purina and lived to sixteen years old, as did my third. The last two, both boys, ate far better quality and did not survive as long. Genetics? One of my best friends fed her dogs the cheapest possible kibble plus table scraps and bones, and they lived to 16 (GSD) and 18 (mutt), so I'm not convinced spending a lot of money on "quality" food is going to buy you much....
