@DebraDownSouth:
Ding ding ding, we have a winner.
I tried to stay out of this, but nah.
First, your post drips condescending drivel. You words above indicate that people who don't know what they are doing, not confident, etc, should go the routes other suggest. But those with your awesome training ability should do yours. Let me state this CLEARLY for people reading this and accepting your posts.
Not the way I read it, but never mind. I related my own experiences, didn't comment on my ability or lack thereof, and also commented on what is clearly anecdotal evidence…...that people of my generation tended to use similar methods with reasonable success (pretty much every kid I knew growing up had a dog at home. No serious bites reported, no dogs put down, and they all lived inside......I don't know anyone that had an outside dog in the city. Country people, maybe so, but I didn't know them).
I have worked with AGGRESSIVE large breed dogs. You bet your bottom dollar I am both experiences and confident. Your methods are not necessary, they increase the chance for aggressive response when it is utterly unnecessary, and choosing to train in a positive rather than macho way has NOTHING to do with confidence or experience but rather your own like for that style.
My neighbour has rehabilitated several Rottweilers…...think that is your breed.....and she is far more heavy handed than anyone else I know. I don't like her methods at all, but she has the best behaved dogs I have seen of that breed, so what does that prove? Nothing at all, except that making blanket statements based on anecdotal evidence proves exactly nothing.
Being 55 years old and raised in the "old style" environment, I suggest you didn't have quite broad enough exposure. Many dogs were in fact aggressive, dominant, nasty, unhinged whatever. But for MOST people back then, dogs lived outside, not in your face 24-7. They ate outside, they rarely got kids in close quarters, they had the ability to leave situations they didn't like or felt uncomfortable with. The dogs weren't better, the people weren't that much more insistent– hell a lot LESS since, oh yeah, MOST DOGS LIVED OUTSIDE--on great behavior. And dogs who did cross the line often got killed. But don't take my word for it, talk to people in their 50s and older and ask if they didn't ALL know of dogs that bit someone they knew or even family.
I've got ten years on you, and as I said, all the dogs I knew growing up lived inside, including the ones that I walked and trained for people starting when I was all of 12 years old. No biters, no nasty dogs, and I had quite a range. Shepherd crosses, a Golden, a Boxer, several cross breds, a Cavalier King Charles, oh, yeah, and a Greyhound. At the time many people let their dogs run during the day, so we came across lots of other dogs in our travels. I usually had four or five with me, typically 2 or 3 off leash. Can't say I ever had any serious fights to deal with. But dogs were typically better socialized then. Most were used to kids and other dogs, since they saw them all the time. You are right on one count. A truly nasty dog would not have been tolerated, and I am sure would have been put down. Sorry, in my sheltered existence I never heard of any…..and I knew most of the dogs living within a three mile or so radius.
Obviously we all agree on exposing dogs to all the type of experiences possible, but just like Andrea's dog, there are dogs you cannot make into docile stuffed toys. There are dogs that are more reactive no matter how much you expose, handle and work with. And if you think for one second that the rest of us have had dogs with issues because we are slackers who let things go, well, okay I am not really surprised you suggested that. YES, it is true for a lot of people whether we are talking training horses, dogs, children or anything. But problems arise even with those of us who don't let things go. And I know this is upsetting to you and your methods, but study upon study upon study prove that you can train nearly every single type of animal with nearly every type of behavioral problem using positive training. Period.
What exactly do you think "my methods" are? Using the operant jargon (which I first learned in the late sixties from my friend who was taking psychology and training her dad's hunting dog tricks to test methods), I use positive reinforcement, positive punishment, negative reinforcement (more so with horses than dogs) and negative punishment, as do all of you, as far as I can determine from reading posts. There is no judgemental weight in the descriptive terms, and "punishment" can be as light as a look or a tone of voice. With sensitive dogs, such as Border Collies and Shelties, that is enough…...more than enough......to be punishment. Even if you don't do that much, body language can act as positive punishment, and most of us are not great at disguising what we feel from our dogs. So, what we are really discussing here is degree, and what is appropriate in a situation. Do you draw the line at a look or a word, or do you allow a water pistol or a tone or a spritz of an aversive scent? Is a swat over the line? How about a full on beating? All are, or can be, "positive punishment". How the animal reacts will tell you. If the behavior diminishes you applied punishment. If it increases, it was reinforcement.
And those few who cannot (such as serious neurological issues, dangerous unstable temperaments and brain tumors, etc) couldn't be trained your way, sure as heck not with a shock collar, without utterly escalating the problem. Again, your methods are not necessary.
I am wondering if you are familiar with Daniel F. Tortora's study, "Safety training: The elimination of avoidance-motivated aggression in dogs". It is quite interesting. The program, which involved use of the e collar to modify behaviour, resulted in complete and permanent elimination of aggression in all of the 36 dogs tested. 100% success. Can't get a whole lot better than that. As far as the reasons for the dogs being aggressive in the first place, according to Tortora, these dogs usually suffer from a lack of training and predictability in their lives and therefore feel like they lack control over their environment. I've always felt that inconsistency is the main reason people run into problems, whatever their training method, and I think this bears that out.
And finally, lest you imagine that I am some weak-minded weak spine softie, I hung a dog up who charged at another person (his owner) until his eyes bulged to prevent him mauling me and the owner. We then took the 80 pound dog to the vet and put him down. He should have been put down long before, with 8 bites to family members and a neighbor– vet would not longer see him unless they had him muzzled before he went in. What caused the issues? I don't know. But not all dogs can be saved. And I have no issue doing what I have to do in an emergency. But I am happy to say that 99 percent of the time when dealing even with aggressive dogs, even when dealing (or maybe especially) with feral dogs, positive training, rewarding good behavior with treats and praise, avoiding ever making it a confrontation, works best. And that other 1 percent often is due to history and need for fast physical intervention. It is not a preferred method.
Oh, Debra, I so don't think you are a weak-minded weak spine softie! Not in any way, shape or form. I am sure I would rather take on one or all of your Rotties than you, in a physical confrontation. 
I really don't think we have a lot to argue about. Discuss, perhaps. I have never said there is anything wrong with "positive" methods (however you want to define it), have only given another perspective on the subject, which as I have said works for me and many people I know, and is not for everyone. Folks can do what they feel comfortable with, use what methods appeal to them, and shouldn't feel guilty or ashamed of practicing something they find effective and that results in a good relationship with their animal.
You know, I am tired of typing. I am tired of arguing. I am not going to change your mind, and you are not going to change mine. In any event, Merry Christmas, and all the best in the New Year. 
