Spaying and Umbilical Hernia

[lisastewart]

At what age does your breeder recommend spaying?

[DebraDownSouth]

Sorry all, but I have to jump in here. ahem… very early spays and neuters are done routinely and as safely as on adult, maybe safer as they heal faster. There are as many MEDICAL reasons for doing it before the first heat as there are to wait. And if the hernia is a problem, you do risk losing your dog. With a normal small hernia, waiting til 6 to 9 mos wouldn't be a problem, but if your vet is concerned about the hernia, and it is abnormal as you describe, do what you and your vet think is best.

I work with rescues that spay/neuter as young as 10 wks. For large breed dogs, there is a link between neutering before 18 MONTHS and bone cancer. They have not studied smaller breeds yet. However with bitches, spaying before the first heat helps prevent mammary cancer.

Let me be clear, I am not really into spay/neuter ever if you can keep the dogs safely as far as breeding issues go and if you stay on top of routine checks for any lumps on bitches. But I think scare tactics should go out the window. Give the info, let the person make a good decision on their own based on facts. Cause Lisa, if your vet nicked the intestines, that is incompetency and having NOTHING to do with early spay/neuter. In fact, the research on early spay/neuter were done with puppies and kittens I think as young as 7 weeks old!

And for growth plates... the truth is early spay/neuter actually causes them to stay open longer and the bones to grow MORE. Sounds good if you want taller dogs... except, oh yeah.. that longer growth may be related to bone cancer. Again, I would wait til a dog was at least 2 myself, but it really is six of one half dozen of the other.

[tanza]

@BaNHANerZzz:

I asked the vet when the earliest I could take care of her hernia and he went ahead and scheduled it this Monday. I didn't want her to have any health problems from her hernia so that's why I agreed to have it done so early.

There is no health problems from an Umbical Hernia… very common (over 80%in Basenjis) .....

I would elect to wait

[tanza]

@BaNHANerZzz:

I have been researching around and I read the earliest is 14 wks. I took the day off to get it done and I believe I will go through with it but I don't want to make the wrong decisions for her.

I have had very small to very large Herina's on my Basenjis… two of the girls had huge... and I do mean huge ones... never a problem, both whelped with no problems... and then when they were spayed they were fixed then....

The only one that had a big one that I had a problem with and had to have fixed, was a bitch that let puppies (not hers..ggg) try and nurse from her and it ruptured and didn't have a choice... Not a usual situation

[khanis]

In all my years of having Basenjis, I have repaired o9nly ONE umbilical hernia.
It was one that was medically required.
If the hernia appears to change color… going from skin color to dark pink and then purple, it is strangulating the intestinal tissue and the surgery needs to be done immediately.
If this isn't the case, I would wait for a little more mental and physical maturity on the pup before undergoing surgery.
There is not a medical need to do it this early UNLESS there are problems with the hernia.
As many PP have said, the umbilical hernia is very common in the breed.
I have shown many big winners with these hernias and it has never been an issue in the show ring.

[BaNHANerZzz]

After all the question about the breeder. My bf and I have been researching the forums about the breeder we got our dog from. We have read some bad reviews on her. My breeders name is Mary Weiss and if anyone has any information can you please let me know.

[lisastewart]

Just make sure you order the fanconi swab test for your dog to determine her status as it is not known if your breeder does any health testing as there is no proof of it in the OFA database. https://secure.offa.org/cart.html

Test is a simple swab that you do and mail directly to the lab, cost is $65. You will have the results back within a month or so.

[Shaye's Mom]

Your pup does seem a little young to be spayed, but if your vet can explain why it should be done so soon, I'm sure he knows. My vet spayed Shaye at 6 months, and repaired the umbilical hernia at the same time - there was no problem with either, and she came home with no ensuing difficulties. I was given five little vials of honey-flavored pain medication, but she showed no discomfort. She didn't need a collar, because she licked at it very rarely and then only a bit at a time. I was worried about the anesthesia situation as b's need less anesthesia than other dogs, and it could become a problem, but my vet was very aware of the situation. Be sure yours is as well. It need not be a scary thing if all your questions are answered by the vet first. + to the testing for Fanconi. We had Shaye tested soon as I learned (from this forum) about it, and were very happy to hear she was clear.

[Patty]

In my opinion unless there is a medical reason 14 weeks is far too young to have a puppy spayed - (I don't believe a vet here would spay that early). As to the umbilical hernia I agree with the previous posts that it may not be necessary at all. Has your vet had experience with Basenjis?

[sharronhurlbut]

Please get the fanconi test kit. It will tell you what you have to deal with in the future.
We are all here for you, if you get bad results, which I so hope you don't.

[BaNHANerZzz]

Are there any symptoms that stick out?

[westcoastflea1]

mary beth weiss is a back yard breeder her adult female annie is ckc not akc and was was purchased from a puppymill

mary beth has not tested for fanconi beyond strip testing (or so she says)
when i contacted her she knew almost nothing about fanconi called it doggie diabetes and said that symptoms didnt show up until a dog was quite old

mary beth weiss does nothing but use these dogs to make money selling puppies then gets rid of them she has had her 3 adults listed on kiji for months at a low price selling them as "breeders"

she will not be taking back any puppies from any buyer as she has a limit of 3 dogs where she live

[sharronhurlbut]

Shame on her! This type of person gives all quality breeders a bad name!

[BaNHANerZzz]

I looked up the dogs akc numbers and they are both there, and I wouldn't give back my puppy for anything, she is a sweet heart

[tlish]

amen… no matter where your baby came from, just enjoy her. what's done is done.

[sharronhurlbut]

BaNHANerZzz.
I want to explain to you why I think it important to find a good breeder.
You have a pup you love, and heaven hopes your b will live the long 17 yrs that we
expect our dogs to live.
BUT if you have a breeder who doesn't do the testing, doesn't make sure that the dogs they produce are healthy, then Heavens forbid, when fanconi hits, you can lose them at the age of 6 or so.
I don't see wanting to get a pup from a quality breeder as a status thing, or anything like that, I see it as getting a puppy you can live for years with.
I have had a fanconi basenji. Its awful, not fun and I lost this beloved dog before I should have.
THAT is the only reason I think most of us want everyone to make sure the pups they get are from folks who are not interested in the $$$ but the quality of the dogs they put on the ground.
That being said, please get the cheek swab for your b. All of you, get the cheek swab for your basenji.
It will tell you what to expect in the future.

[BaNHANerZzz]

She is going to the vet on Monday and I will ask the vet to test her. Thank you all for your comments. I am going to talk more with the vet and see what else he recommends.

[lvoss]

Most vets will have not idea what you are talking about. You need to order a kit from the OFA site, http://www.offa.org

Go to DNA tests and look for Fanconi. The test costs $65

[renaultf1]

lvoss is correct - order the fanconi test from Offa.org. I doubt your vet will know anything about it.

[Basenjimamma]

…...., and I wouldn't give back my puppy for anything, she is a sweet heart

I agree with you a 100%..most of us, if not all of us, will never want to give the dog up or away for anything..but things happen sometimes in your life that makes that possiblility very true….and when/if that ever happens it is extremely nice to know that your breeder now matter what will take you dog back so he/she will never end up in a shelter .

My BYB-breed basenji ended up biting my 4 yr old child, myself and my husband..when he bit my child the third time we knew something had to happen..we could not live with the fear of our children's or our own safety anymore..the option of calling our "breeder" was a joke..a) because I didn't want Otis back in those conditions again, b) because the phone never got picked up on the "breeders" end..i.e no one was there to support you..he ended up getting rehomed through BRAT..and is thriving now in a childless, single dog home..and has not had any issues of biting again..

I never, never thought I would give my dog up...but things happen where you have no control..

This is only a minor part of why responsible, reputable breeders are what we need to support and seek out..but..
yes I understand your notion of never, ever wanting to give her back or up....