@kylo
I live in Western, MA - Chicopee
New potential Basenji Owner in Wisconsin–-am a little scared!
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Exactly… and the main purpose of responsible breeders is education of the public... and that means keeping the fact that health testing is important.. and puppies that come from puppy mills or BYB's do not test... and how important it is... It is hard to tell someone how heartbreaking it is to wind up with a sick dog that could have been prevented
By that logic no dog who comes from a breeder who test will have a disease. I was reading the thread on the story of the board, Vanessa got a basenji from Khanis Basenjis whose dogs are tested for everything yet she had a very sick dog who eventually passed. I have many friends with dogs and none of them bought them from a show breeder, and those dogs are healthy and quite old.
I wasn't very happy with the way the whole fanconi thing was broken down to me. No one here ever tells you how little have those test been going on for and actually even why they even started testing dogs in the first place. Check out Pedigree Dogs Exposed to see what I'm talking about.
The one thing that is responsible for all of these genetic diseases is selective breeding, and the blame falls on people like us who knowing that a mixed breed dog is usually healthier than a pure pure breed still decide for the pedigree AKC dog. If you don't want to have to worry about a dogs genetics then get a dog with a wider genetic pool, it's not rocket science.
And how curious that everyone "educating" us about all of these diseases are breeders that look to make profit the same way the BYB they bash so much do, the only difference are a couple of genetic test that call a healthy dog "probably clear".
Give me a break.
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I am taking this to another thread because this is definately not what Catherine came here for.
Danny, I think you are upset because you may not be happy with things that you were told on this forum but I think if you read what has been posted everyone has been VERY upfront with the EXACT date when the test was released in many thread and have posted updates as they have been available. The basenji community has worked very hard for years to get this test. The test was released on July 17, 2007 and since that time over 3000 dogs have been tested.
Please see the new thread http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?p=69202#post69202
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That is not what I said… I said that the more health testing that a breeder does reduces the chance of "known" (maybe I should have made that more clear) health concerns in the breed... there are always going to be something that is out of the norm that happens... all animals can and do get sick... doesn't mean that it is genetic... and I totally disagree that "mixed" breeds are healthier... quite the opposite... there are many with hip problems, eye probems, thyroid problems, just to name a few.... If you are talking about "selective" breeding in the wild.. that certainly is different as only the fittest live to breed...
And make a profit... LOL... now that would be a novel idea.. I have never made a profit on a litter and only once broken even... and I consider myself lucky... and I think the 80% of responsible breeders will say the same thing.. we are not in it to sell puppies and make money, but to preserve and improve the breed.
As far as why testing was started and BCOA worked so hard and is still working for the direct test is that it is in our breed, dogs die from it.. and have been around since Basenjis were brought from Africa in the 40's... it was not till the 60's? that it was given a name... only the Basenjis died from it... and no one knew what it was... then at least after that Dr. Gonto developed the protocol that help to keep many alive.. but no cure... At least now with the linkage test we have a pretty darn good idea that the mode is recessive... and for those that have been in the breed for a long time look at the test results and say... "yes" they all make sense.
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Yup… good idea lvoss... you were posting as I did this one...
And for Catherine... Basenjis are great dogs and family companions.. but they have their moments... you need to remember they are "hounds" first and they do what comes natural... and that is not being obedient for the most part... give a command like sit/stay... a typical answer might be.. "right after you do"...
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1 - hybred vigor has been debunked many times that I don't even need to go into the fallacy of that.
2 - we have been supporting research for fanconi disease an a wide variety of tests and testing for years - it is just that this test - so accurate in getting to know what the likelihood of passing on this disease before dogs are adults so you can NOT breed those affected. Previously we did what we could with pedigree research and sometimes were more successful than others. THere are MANY breeds where people are not as forthright as in basenjis.
3 - Pedigree dogs exposed was a sensationalization for sweeps week - it did not begin to try to portray what those of us who breed quality animals for show and companionship - it is claptrap supported by those groups who would have no dog ownership at all - but all dogs free and unencumbered by human restraint.
4 - All those who have made a profit on one litter or cumulatively on all the litters you have bred - please identify yourselfs because obviously I don't know you. No one that I know - who does it right makes any money on dogs - if you are very very lucky you may break even from time to time.
5 - think about on this list the people who have the longest experience and are the ones that you count on when you have a question. - It's us the breeders that are members of our breed club and are proud to retain our committment and ethics in breeding dogs on a limited and planful basis. -
I guess I just don't understand why someone would pay the same amount of $$ or even more to get a dog with NO health testing…when they can get a basenji who will live a long life.
Don't most of us check out "things" that matter...buying a car, go research the site that show safety, gas milage, etc.
But when you get an animal who is a critter who will love you and you will love you just take your chances?? -
Coming from someone who's Basenji was recently diagnosed with Fanconi - PLEASE do your research and make sure that you will end up with a pup that has the best chance of living a long healthy life! I love my Tayda to bits and will NOT give up on her - but I so wish that this genetic testing information was available when I was researching the breed. I have a cupboard full of pills in my kitchen and hundreds (soon to be thousands) of dollars in vet bills trying to stabilize her on her medications.
I am not a breeder - I get nothing from endorsing what is being said here. I'm just a pet owner that is dealing with exactly what everyone is trying to spare you from. Do your research - verify what the breeder says on the OFA website. People here can help you with that.
Basenjis are fun, energetic, quirky, silly, smart, stubborn and totally different from other dogs. They are not for everyone, but if you can deal with THEM training YOU to be their owner - you will not be able to imagine your life without him.
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Catherine, I've been thinking of you all day.
I apologize if my post created any ill feelings or added to your discomfort/anxiety. I hope you traveled safe today and found a pup to call your own. That would make it a Good Friday, indeed.
In the spirit of your original post, yes, you should be scared AND excited:).
18 years ago, my daughter begged and begged for a 'senji (after seeing the 1956 movie "Goodbye, My Lady"). We finally caved when she was 11. Needless to say, our life has never been the same. For example, within the first 5 minutes of being in the house, our "barkless" dog barked at us. George Bush never had the shock-and-awe affect we had that day. I realized we were clueless.:eek: when it came to this breed.
I learned to love our Tyler (it took about 1 day…then off and on for another 6 months), laugh at his antics, embrace his quirks, and appreciate what he brought to our home.
I'm not a breeder, shower, racer, lure courser. Just a pet owner. I love my B's and hope the rest of the pet buyers here find happy and healthy companions to spend the next 15 years with.:D
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Tayda, I know where your coming from. My beloved b who had fanconis is long gone, but I can still recall sobbing in the kitchen when I couldn't get his pills down him.
Hugs, hugs, hugs for what your going through. -
It took forever to find pictures and names of the dogs on the site, but I have seen the dogs on here before and I think that the dogs have been tested as carriers for fanconi, I can't remember but wasn't there a lady that had a pup come up affected from here?
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Catherine,
We have been discussing your trip and are wondering how it went? Did you get a pup? If you haven't decided yet we would strongly caution you, like the others, not to purchase from this breeder.
Jason and Randa
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It took forever to find pictures and names of the dogs on the site, but I have seen the dogs on here before and I think that the dogs have been tested as carriers for fanconi, I can't remember but wasn't there a lady that had a pup come up affected from here?
Only 5 of the animals from that kennel have been tested and it does not include the sire and dam of the litter unless they were submitted under a call name or under puppy - on both sides there are carriers at least - that are on the list as well as the sire of these puppies is from a litter that had at least one affected.
I would be concerned about the gaps of current dogs not tested - or at least not yet reported on the website and the fact that behind the mom in particular are some famous PM with fanconi and nasty temperament (ponderosa, Hoefer etc)
But everyone has to make their own decisions - we can provide information but if people chose not to believe us - well that's their choice.
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I am not sure which litter you are talking about Diane, 1 litter has 1 parent tested, the other doesn't have enough information to check.
Litter #1 - Hestekin Hills Harrison Ford (untested) x Hestekin Hills Here I Am (Probably Clear, no other health testing) Also the dam's results were not received until 2 weeks after the litter was born so it was just luck that the dam was clear.
Litter #2 - No registered names given that I can find to check parents.
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Litter one sire is a litter mate to the Affected dog - so…..... we don't know about that one - the bitch had not come up on my first search but did when I only put the first part of the kennel name. I cross reference names with the Pedigree database to see who was out of whom. hence I know that Harrison ford was out of the same litter that the affected boy is out of.
No idea about litter 2 - no names other than 'classy' given. Nothing obvious matched on the pedigree data base and no sire name.
But again - her decision -we can only provide information and support.
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Oh, its a shame that there isn't a "doggie" lemon law in all states.
That way, when you lose a beloved pet you could sue.
Sigh. -
FYI - here is a link to some of the lemon laws that I found a few years ago. http://www.malteseonly.com/lemon.html
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If the person that started this thread has not gotten a puppy, there is a nice puppy that is 4 months old posted on this board from a Mark who is in the Military and is going to Iraq in June/July.
Jason and Randa
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Another thing that struck me as odd was that her first litter, "Mia"'s litter I think, had lots of trindle pups out of two tri-color parents. Which is genetically impossible. The sire has brindle behind him so I suppose there is a slight chance that he is really a trindle but they don't see any stripes and registered him wrong. But I would think that would be aweful rare that there are NO stripes anywhere on that tan, not face, nor legs, nor rear end? Hmmmm.
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Hello Catherine & welcome from Canada. I hope you haven't been scared off by all the posts here, but there is a lot of good advice, especially since you had posted about the scared part. I hope that whatever you decide, you will continue with this forum. It definately helps to know that I'm not the only one that has the ocassional rebel.
Anyway, nice to have you here, & happy Easter.G
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Actually Kelli, it's totally possible. If one of the parents have brindle parent, It definitely can happen. I know of one litter who was bred black to red. The black had a brindle parent. Out came blacks, reds and trindle. Totally possible.
