New update: Tika is no longer in heat! Yay! Remy got neutered and is doing great! We got a dog trainer to come in assess the situation and she thinks it is starting to improve compared to how I described it when I booked her to come. Only Maia seems to need the muzzle, she seems to be very unsure of the puppy. We are working with her to build her confidence. The puppy doesn’t seem to have any stress with Maia around and won’t start anything. The muzzle is on just in case when I am home alone as I don’t want anything bad to happen when if I can’t separate them. The puppy is getting lots of training time to help her learn how to behave properly. With 2 people here we can have the girls on short leashes and they are fine together. They did have a small altercation of snarling but no biting and no one got hurt. The older female backed down and walked away. As much as I want her to be the top dog it seems that the puppy has a much more dominant personality. If they figure out the pack hierchy hopefully everything will settle down. The trainer says there are no pack instincts in domesticated dogs, but after having 6 basenjis I can’t agree with that in regards to basenjis. We can walk the girls together without muzzles now so I think things are more positive and they seem to be improving every day. When Remy is healed from his neuter I will get the puppy spayed and hope that calms things down even further. So far there is a lot more peace in the house. Please anyone let me know if there is anything else I should be doing to keep these girls on track. Thank you for all your advice and guidance! I am so grateful for this forum as what is normal for other dogs is not so much with these guys!
Is my basenji from a legit breeder?
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The Native Stock Project's website is located at, http://www.basenji.org/NativeStock/ImportIndex.htm
All the information about the project is there including the process for applying and acceptance of Native Stock.
The big differences between Native Stock imported from Africa and an unregistered dog bred in the US is the isolation of the breeding population and new stock from Africa are new Founders. One factor that weighs heavily into the acceptance process is the provenance of the import. Does the BCOA Board and ultimately the BCOA membership feel that the dog not only looks and acts like a basenji but comes from an area isolated enough that there is a high likelihood that the dogs are pure basenji. Another difference is that any US born unregistered "basenji", does not really offer any new genes to our genepool because they come from the original founders of our breed. Dogs imported from isolated areas of Africa that are most likely to be purebred basenjis offer the breed new Founders which is a very significant and important difference, they represent truly new genes to the genepool not just a different combination of the same old genes.
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I totally agree with lvoss… as stated any Basenji in the US has come from original stock included but certainly not limited to the very first Avongara Basenjis. And as lvoss also correctly stated, there are many other things to consider other then two DNA tests... and things that are only known by knowing the parents, grandparents, offspring and siblings. I can show anyone that would like to see... a wonderful Basenji with a great temperament... she was bred to a pretty strong dog and the resulting pups are of the sire's side of the pedigree. Had I not known that side of the pedigree (sire's side) and just continued to breed, I could have had produced pups with horrible temperaments... liken to the Basenjis of 40yrs ago. When you don't know what is back in the pedigree then you are breeding in the dark.. just because you have a "nice" dog, doesn't mean that is what it will produce... and that includes things like Hip problems, Thyroid problems, problems with bad bites to name a few.
And while the new imports are mostly in the same boat, they will be selectively bred to find out what possible problems there could be... on the other hand if bred to current Basenji stock, the health is known on that side.
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So basically one of the major factors considered when planning to import Basenji's from Africa was not based on an absolute, but an assumption of what would highly likely.
I think it is known, that statically there is a margin of error involved in any assumption that is highly likely. Animals have a tendency to go where the food is, so that does bring up other factors.
I am sure the BCOA is very aware of this and has researched it thoroughly.
Miranda and I can see that probably the most significant difference noted is that the Native stock imported from Africa are new founders and bringing some diversity to the gene pool.
While Miranda has been able to find a few companies that do DNA testing in an attempt to identify dog breeds, only one offered any quantification of specific breed makeup, and even this company only offered up to 75% confirmation with their existing test. Most likely there are others companies who's percentages might be different, that do similar testing we have yet to discover. Hopefully the confidence level of these tests will improve as time goes on and this issue can be revisited.
Jason
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The Native Stock Project's website is located at, http://www.basenji.org/NativeStock/ImportIndex.htm
All the information about the project is there including the process for applying and acceptance of Native Stock.
The big differences between Native Stock imported from Africa and an unregistered dog bred in the US is the isolation of the breeding population and new stock from Africa are new Founders. One factor that weighs heavily into the acceptance process is the provenance of the import. Does the BCOA Board and ultimately the BCOA membership feel that the dog not only looks and acts like a basenji but comes from an area isolated enough that there is a high likelihood that the dogs are pure basenji. Another difference is that any US born unregistered "basenji", does not really offer any new genes to our genepool because they come from the original founders of our breed. Dogs imported from isolated areas of Africa that are most likely to be purebred basenjis offer the breed new Founders which is a very significant and important difference, they represent truly new genes to the genepool not just a different combination of the same old genes.
Is it possible that this answer could be made into a sticky?
Thanks
Jason -
Since we have sort of hi-jacked this thread, I have created a new one in the genetics section if people want to continue the discussion on Founders and Genetic Diversity, http://www.basenjiforums.com/showthread.php?p=50863#post50863
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Hey Meandi,
I just hopped onto this discussion. My mom was considering breeding her chihuahua with one of her friend's dogs, just to make some extra money and to have puppies (everyone loves puppies!) and I sent her to this website which helped to change her mind (her dog is now altered, yay!). It's from a labrador breeder, but the idea behind it is still spot-on.
http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/breeding/breeder2.html
Here is another one (not quite as snarky!) which I believe is from a Shiba Inu breeder
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/1867/breeding.html
This has a spot close to my heart, because the dog that we are fostering is from a backyard breeder (she was used as a puppy-maker). I know that if you were to breed you would treat your dog better than that, so please don't take offense. If you truly want to breed your dog, please research your dog's heritage, and find a responsible basenji breeder that could be your mentor. Learn, learn, learn as much as you can from them.
I hope this all doesn't sound mean but please be so careful. Are you ready to be there for all of the puppies you produce from cradle to grave? A responsible breeder is there for the owners throughout the lifetime of the puppies they produce. Many are willing to help train and show the puppies as well, free of charge. Those of us in rescue see so many purebred dogs coming through… It's just so sad. In my opinion (take it or leave it!) only the very best of the best dogs ought to be bred. As for all of the other dogs, there are so many dogs out there needing good homes, why add to the problem?
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I was reading through this post and remember when I joined a couple years ago. I felt the same way about people who are breeders. I have learned that at least the breeders here are unique to what I have seen all my years in vet practice. They really breed for the betterment of the breed. If you look at the cost they put into these pups and parents, there is no way they are recouping all their money. Especially if these dogs come back. Please respect the breeders that we have on here and take their advice to heart. They are not trying to make you feel bad about your purchase but educate you as to what pup you have and what you need to do to keep it healthy.
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well im not going to breed my dog i was making a fact that to one of the members on here that i could breed my dog if i wanted to, and i could breed her only for money purposes too if i wanted. Im not going to i was just trying to make a point that shes my dog. Cause i believe the member of this forum said "just to have puppies is not a good enough reason for a responsible breeder"
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And her point was that "just because I can" does not and will not make it a responsible decision. I don't think you made any point other than any one with an intact dog can produce puppies it does not mean those puppies will have homes, be healthy, loved, or cared for. It does not make that person responsible.
No responsible breeder breeds a litter just because they can. Responsibly bred litters are bred only after planning, health testing, screening homes, etc. They are bred purposefully with goals beyond putting money in someone's pocket.
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Exactly, lvoss…. anyone can breed just "because"... it is the right thing to do... IMO... NO.. it is not... people that breed need to have the right reasons... not just to have puppies to sell, because you need to be responsible for every single pup.. for its entire lifetime... and getting money for those pups is not the objective of a responsible breeder.
